When to start 10 second count?

[Jqb12]

WOW.
Can't believe all the garbage that went with this post. "Is he a fan, a coach, a lurker..WTF? I simply asked a question that a veteran of 40 years ran by me yesterday at our game. I understood the justification he gave and trusted he was correct based on his veteran status, but for my own learning/knowledge of the game i was looking for more, or someone else to give me the same answer. Since the game, I've asked several area officials on this play, and they are all wrong also (Dr. Pete)! This is my 8th season working varsity ball in Ohio/Pa and this play has never come up. I go to this forum a lot (read more than post) when I have questions so that I can continue to learn. Ill tell you one thing I have learned sadly, is that being a former FB coach for years, I always felt that coaches were some of the most egotistical dudes to be around - changed my mind, officials can be the worst. Put a whistle in someones mouth and forget it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jqb12

WOW.
Can't believe all the garbage that went with this post. "Is he a fan, a coach, a lurker..WTF? I simply asked a question that a veteran of 40 years ran by me yesterday at our game. I understood the justification he gave and trusted he was correct based on his veteran status, but for my own learning/knowledge of the game i was looking for more, or someone else to give me the same answer. Since the game, I've asked several area officials on this play, and they are all wrong also (Dr. Pete)! This is my 8th season working varsity ball in Ohio/Pa and this play has never come up. I go to this forum a lot (read more than post) when I have questions so that I can continue to learn. Ill tell you one thing I have learned sadly, is that being a former FB coach for years, I always felt that coaches were some of the most egotistical dudes to be around - changed my mind, officials can be the worst. Put a whistle in someones mouth and forget it.

If you are an official as you claim, then you should know how to find the answer rather quickly. If that bothers you that we here discuss all kinds of aspects of a rule and you cannot get a quick answer, take that to a mentor or someone on FB. BTW, they do the same thing on FB and other social media platforms during similar discussions. I also feel many officials have very fragile egos when expecting to get an answer they never seem to understand. You have been doing this in 8 years and have not figured out when a 10-second count starts? And your question was not about when it actually started, but when it continues. This is something I learned the first year of officiating because I had to get into the rulebook. They did not even have this forum up when I started. I had to do a lot of reading of the rulebook to know basic things. Not a lot of email or even social media to get a quick answer. Lame if you ask me.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you are an official as you claim, then you should know how to find the answer rather quickly.

When I'm at a game site, I use the rulebook and casebook to get a quick answer (I don't own a smartphone, long story).

When I'm taking my annual take-home open-book Refresher Exam, I have the rulebook and casebook by my side.

But when I'm home with my packed equipment bag downstairs near the door, or in the back seat of my car, I know how to get a relatively quickly answer to a question, I ask the Forum (or use its search tool).

Sometimes there is no quick answer, usually because the NFHS has done a poor job regarding some interpretations, but I'm very likely to get a quick correct answer using the Forum in many cases.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When I'm at a game site, I use the rulebook and casebook to get a quick answer (I don't own a smartphone, long story).

When I'm taking my annual take-home open-book Refresher Exam, I have the rulebook and casebook by my side.

But when I'm home with my packed equipment bag downstairs near the door, or in the back seat of my car, I know how to get a relatively quickly answer to a question, I ask the Forum (or use its search tool).

Sometimes there is no quick answer, usually because the NFHS has done a poor job regarding some interpretations, but I'm very likely to get a quick correct answer using the Forum in many cases.

Don't miss the point Billy. There are several resources to get this answer. There are even Simplified and Illustrated books, Rules by Topic, Referee Magazine articles and tests, online websites, and even rulebooks online if you look hard enough. If you are going to be in your feelings about the answers you get, then use the multiple resources to find the answer. And if someone gives you an answer, how are you going to know they are telling you the right reference? It means you might have to still look it up.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if someone gives you an answer, how are you going to know they are telling you the right reference?

Here on the Forum, we do a pretty good job of policing ourselves. It's almost like the peer review process that we scientists are obligated use.

Originally Posted by DrPete

... begin the 10 second count when the player gains control of the ball in the backcourt.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Your answer is incorrect.

Originally Posted by DrPete

Are you saying count would start when ball went into backcourt?

Originally Posted by BigCat

The count starts the moment the ball touches the BC.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 8: A1 is dribbling in his/her frontcourt when B1 deflects the ball into A's backcourt. The ball is bouncing toward the end line in A's backcourt while A1 and B1 give chase. B1 and A1 each contact the ball, but neither gains control. Finally, after numerous attempts by each player, A1 gains possession deep in A's backcourt. When does the 10-second count begin anew for Team A? RULING: The count starts as soon as the ball goes into the backcourt since team control has not ended. (4-12-3; 9-8)

Originally Posted by DrPete

Well at my age any day you learn something new is a good day. Thanks guys.

[CJP]

In this case, I think the rule book is pretty clear. I will admit that there are a few rules that I have heard "veteran" officials just make things up. This has caused me to doubt my interpretation of the rule book sometimes. In defense of the OP, I know what the rule book says but it never hurts to get some discussion going about these types of things.

[Jqb12]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you are an official as you claim, then you should know how to find the answer rather quickly. If that bothers you that we here discuss all kinds of aspects of a rule and you cannot get a quick answer, take that to a mentor or someone on FB. BTW, they do the same thing on FB and other social media platforms during similar discussions. I also feel many officials have very fragile egos when expecting to get an answer they never seem to understand. You have been doing this in 8 years and have not figured out when a 10-second count starts? And your question was not about when it actually started, but when it continues. This is something I learned the first year of officiating because I had to get into the rulebook. They did not even have this forum up when I started. I had to do a lot of reading of the rulebook to know basic things. Not a lot of email or even social media to get a quick answer. Lame if you ask me.

Peace

1. So the easy answer was to go back to the 2008-09 book to find it? Sure, the justification of the play seems simple, but there's a lot of officials out there who would answer that question wrong, just as you read on here (Dr. Pete)..
2. Nothing about a fragile ego here. i have the balls to simply ask something that I wish to know. you may need to tell the world how you clawed your way up the ladder by reading the rulebook in order too feel good about yourself - i don't. So i think its pretty clear whats 'lame" here.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jqb12

1. So the easy answer was to go back to the 2008-09 book to find it? Sure, the justification of the play seems simple, but there's a lot of officials out there who would answer that question wrong, just as you read on here (Dr. Pete).

You don't have to go back to any case book. A basic reading and understanding of the written rules (on backcourt violations and team control) tells you everything you need to make the ruling.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You don't have to go back to any case book. A basic reading and understanding of the written rules (on backcourt violations and team control) tells you everything you need to make the ruling.

I was waiting for this answer. Now I don't need to post anything.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jqb12

Can't believe all the garbage that went with this post.

When I logged on this morning "When to start the 10 sec. count" with seventeen replies caught my attention. I wondered what was going on. Should have been answered in far fewer replies than that, maybe an answer and an additional rule citation.

While I enjoy debate as much as anybody, and fully understand the educational value of "digging" into a topic (my understanding of the various jump ball rules has improved because of a recent thread), I also understand that some may use this forum as a rule source, like Alexa, or Siri, but with the hassle of having to use a keyboard rather than just asking orally.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jqb12

WOW.
Can't believe all the garbage that went with this post. "Is he a fan, a coach, a lurker..WTF? I simply asked a question that a veteran of 40 years ran by me yesterday at our game. I understood the justification he gave and trusted he was correct based on his veteran status, but for my own learning/knowledge of the game i was looking for more, or someone else to give me the same answer. Since the game, I've asked several area officials on this play, and they are all wrong also (Dr. Pete)! This is my 8th season working varsity ball in Ohio/Pa and this play has never come up. I go to this forum a lot (read more than post) when I have questions so that I can continue to learn. Ill tell you one thing I have learned sadly, is that being a former FB coach for years, I always felt that coaches were some of the most egotistical dudes to be around - changed my mind, officials can be the worst. Put a whistle in someones mouth and forget it.

Why wouldn't you post more? You're an 8th year vet and could contribute.

I don't understand when people take and take and take and then complain about how the responses are unfriendly and the like -- if you were a contributor, I'd be more inclined to listen more.

I get we're an annoying bunch at times, but we know the answers to these questions and rather than answer them, we'd like to get people to find the answers themselves by asking the questions that need to be asked to figure them out. That's all.

[Jqb12]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why wouldn't you post more? You're an 8th year vet and could contribute.

I don't understand when people take and take and take and then complain about how the responses are unfriendly and the like -- if you were a contributor, I'd be more inclined to listen more.

I get we're an annoying bunch at times, but we know the answers to these questions and rather than answer them, we'd like to get people to find the answers themselves by asking the questions that need to be asked to figure them out. That's all.

1. I only come here when I can't find the answer myself. There's nothing in the 2018-19 casebook. Looks like I'd have to go back to 2008-9 to find it.
2. Why don't I post here more? Would rather look people in the eyes to get an answer than spend hours playing on the internet.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jqb12

1. I only come here when I can't find the answer myself. There's nothing in the 2018-19 casebook. Looks like I'd have to go back to 2008-9 to find it.
2. Why don't I post here more? Would rather look people in the eyes to get an answer than spend hours playing on the internet.

So you're a user. Then you don't like the response when you come here to use us. Got it.

See you in another 2+ years, I guess.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why wouldn't you post more? You're an 8th year vet and could contribute ... asking the questions that need to be asked to figure them out.

Agree with Rich. Please contribute.

Also sounds like Rich is another disciple of Socrates.

Of course, as disciples of Socrates, unlike Socrates, we have to remember not to drink the hemlock.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why wouldn't you post more? You're an 8th year vet and could contribute.

I don't understand when people take and take and take and then complain about how the responses are unfriendly and the like -- if you were a contributor, I'd be more inclined to listen more.

I get we're an annoying bunch at times, but we know the answers to these questions and rather than answer them, we'd like to get people to find the answers themselves by asking the questions that need to be asked to figure them out. That's all.

I have to say I appreciate all the knowledge that you guys supply. Your methods of getting the answer to somebody is effective and gets a guy to think. I've learned plenty from you guys. Even how to "T" somebody up!!

Thanks guys!