Boy dunks during halftime of girls game....

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The rule does not say anytime during the pregame whether that be an hour or 20 minutes before the game. This all applies when the officials have jurisdiction over their game. Halftime of another game has nothing to do with the game the players are playing in. I guess you would also require the players to remove jewelry, illegal equipment or tell them to take off certain color sleeves or items that do not fit the color restrictions during the halftime of the previous games as well? And when they do not comply, are you going to not allow them to play or give them a technical foul if they do not follow your instructions?

Peace

The state I work in has adopted it's own rule. From an official online message to all basketball officials:

"Players may not dunk during the pregame warm-up before their game or during the half-time of the preceding game. Administration and coaches are responsible to make sure players do not dunk during these periods. Once officials arrive on the court if dunking occurs the penalty is a technical foul. The foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach and the coach loses his/her coaching box privilege for the remainder of the game. This rule is outlined in the basketball manual and is to be followed by all schools during the regular and post season."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

"Players may not dunk during the pregame warm-up before their game or during the half-time of the preceding game. Administration and coaches are responsible to make sure players do not dunk during these periods. Once officials arrive on the court if dunking occurs the penalty is a technical foul. The foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach and the coach loses his/her coaching box privilege for the remainder of the game. This rule is outlined in the basketball manual and is to be followed by all schools during the regular and post season."

The Grand Poobah has spoken.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The Grand Poobah has spoken.

The Wizard of Oz, as it were.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

The Wizard of Oz, as it were.

Or E.F. Hutton.

https://youtu.be/2_ygqPepLjM

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Or E.F. Hutton.

https://youtu.be/2_ygqPepLjM

Billy:

Are you channeling Uncle Miltie and stealing my jokes that I stole from others? LOL!

MTD, Sr.

[zm1283]

I love when state governing bodies make up stuff that directly goes against playing rules.

[LRZ]

If you are old enough and have been doing this long enough, you probably were schooled in an entirely different officiating philosophy than today's, which is dominated by automatics, required calls, limited discretion, and central office micromanaging. The situation that began this discussion is illustrative.

Sid Borgia, I believe, once said, "I don't call fouls, I dispense justice." Applied to school ball, that's an exaggeration, but the idea remains valid, embodied in notions like advantage/disadvantage and preventive officiating. When I began, we were taught to apply common sense to the rules and mechanics, then allowed to use our judgment and discretion in maintaining good game management.

Now, discretion is discouraged, and automatic calls of all sorts are mandated. I, for one, do not see this as improving the quality of officiating or of the flow of the game itself.

OK, I got that out of my system. I'm calm, now.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by LRZ

If you are old enough and have been doing this long enough, you probably were schooled in an entirely different officiating philosophy than today's, which is dominated by automatics, required calls, limited discretion, and central office micromanaging. The situation that began this discussion is illustrative.

Sid Borgia, I believe, once said, "I don't call fouls, I dispense justice." Applied to school ball, that's an exaggeration, but the idea remains valid, embodied in notions like advantage/disadvantage and preventive officiating. When I began, we were taught to apply common sense to the rules and mechanics, then allowed to use our judgment and discretion in maintaining good game management.

Now, discretion is discouraged, and automatic calls of all sorts are mandated. I, for one, do not see this as improving the quality of officiating or of the flow of the game itself.

OK, I got that out of my system. I'm calm, now.

I disagree with the blanket statement that "discretion is discouraged."

The reason the "automatic" fouls were implemented was because officials were repeatedly ignoring points of emphasis and directives to clean up hand-checking because it "doesn't affect anything." Additionally, judgment in what was an "advantage" varied so widely by official that it was impossible for coaches and players to adjust. And quite frankly I still see and work with plenty of officials that don't call 10-1-4 (NFHS ref?) fouls as diligently as they should. The codifying of these fouls wouldn't have been necessary if officials had followed the directives to start with.

But on drives to the basket or violations, for example, discretion and judgment of advantage/disadvantage are still encouraged and taught as far as I'm concerned.

And in the OP, that's simply not a technical foul by rule unless one's state has issued guidance to the contrary.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LRZ

If you are old enough and have been doing this long enough, you probably were schooled in an entirely different officiating philosophy than today's, which is dominated by automatics, required calls, limited discretion, and central office micromanaging. When I began, we were taught to apply common sense to the rules and mechanics, then allowed to use our judgment and discretion in maintaining good game management. Now, discretion is discouraged, and automatic calls of all sorts are mandated.

Now that I'm reaching the end of my officiating career I'm reminiscing about the guys I observed when I first started. The best guys back then (1980) didn't have perfect mechanics, couldn't figure their way through the proper rules for odd plays (correctable errors, etc.), and made up signals as they went along, but they could make the tough calls and fairly officiate and manage the game (there were some guys back then who could call a game and who had good mechanics, rule knowledge, and signals, some, but not many).

A long time hard ass coach (whose players, in three sports, would never say a disrespectful word to officials) recently passed away and was remembered at our last board meeting. An encounter was described between this coach and one of our old time veterans, who also since passed away. In the incident described the veteran just tossed the coach out of the game, no technical foul called, no free throws, he just tossed him out of the gym, and moved on with the game.

Today it's all about consistency, we can often be described as "robots". I'm all for consistency, it helps the game, but it has also taken much of the fun out of officiating basketball.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

The state I work in has adopted it's own rule. From an official online message to all basketball officials:

"Players may not dunk during the pregame warm-up before their game or during the half-time of the preceding game. Administration and coaches are responsible to make sure players do not dunk during these periods. Once officials arrive on the court if dunking occurs the penalty is a technical foul. The foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach and the coach loses his/her coaching box privilege for the remainder of the game. This rule is outlined in the basketball manual and is to be followed by all schools during the regular and post season."

Still (based on the text above), the officials for the game are not yet on the court for that game. Before that, it is on the administrators to deal with it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still, the officials for the game are not yet on the court for that game. Before that, it is on the administrators to deal with it.

Yes, but once they're on the court they may still be responsible to enforce illegal dunking for personnel who aren't actually in "their" game, especially for officials in a game previous to a boys varsity game.

Is the technical foul charged in the illegal dunking game or in the following game?

If in the illegal dunking game, is there a penalty for adding a name to the scorebook?

Is the indirect technical foul charged in the illegal dunking game or in the following game?

Who sits, the illegal dunking coach, or the following game coach?

Are the technical foul free throws taken in the illegal dunking game, or in the following game?

Many questions, few answers.

I'm glad that I can just ignore.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still (based on the text above), the officials for the game are not yet on the court for that game. Before that, it is on the administrators to deal with it.

We are told by the state, in no uncertain terms mind you, that we officials are to take note and penalize any pre-game dunking during the half time of the preceding game if we see it happen. We are not to ignore.

Does this situation happen? Yes. I've personally witnessed it occur during an off night for me while watching a crew work my hometown team two seasons ago (no I wasn't off duty "whistle blowing" on the player that dunked - just an observer). BV dunked during the half time of the preceding JV game. V officials happened to see it.

The state reminds us of this prior to every season during our rules meeting or during an area meeting.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

We are told by the state, in no uncertain terms mind you, that we officials are to take note and penalize any pre-game dunking during the half time of the preceding game if we see it happen. We are not to ignore ... BV dunked during the half time of the preceding JV game. V officials happened to see it.

When in Rome ..., so please answer me these:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is the technical foul charged in the illegal dunking game or in the following game?

If in the illegal dunking game, is there a penalty for adding a name to the scorebook?

Is the indirect technical foul charged in the illegal dunking game or in the following game?

Who sits, the illegal dunking coach, or the following game coach?

Are the technical foul free throws taken in the illegal dunking game, or in the following game?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

The state I work in has adopted it's own rule. From an official online message to all basketball officials:

"Players may not dunk during the pregame warm-up before their game or during the half-time of the preceding game. Administration and coaches are responsible to make sure players do not dunk during these periods. Once officials arrive on the court if dunking occurs the penalty is a technical foul. The foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach and the coach loses his/her coaching box privilege for the remainder of the game. This rule is outlined in the basketball manual and is to be followed by all schools during the regular and post season."

Then you needed to state that in your post where you basically accused those of not applying the rules. This is what your state does, not what everyone else does necessarily. That is a big piece of the puzzle or conversation you left out. But for the record, your reference in the casebook does not apply to this. I have never been told to penalize a player for pre-game activities of any kind during a game I had no jurisdiction over or that was not during the game or pre-game in question.

Peace

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then you needed to state that in your post where you basically accused those of not applying the rules. This is what your state does, not what everyone else does necessarily. That is a big piece of the puzzle or conversation you left out. But for the record, your reference in the casebook does not apply to this. I have never been told to penalize a player for pre-game activities of any kind during a game I had no jurisdiction over or that was not during the game or pre-game in question.

Peace

I didn't accuse. I asked if they/he/whoever supported it.

The answer was "no" along with some commentary.

Good enough for me.