Boy dunks during halftime of girls game....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Fair enough....I guess..... But, I'm interested in your reason for supporting the setting aside of rule Rule: 10.5.1?

10.5.1 SITUATION E:

Fifteen minutes before the game is scheduled to start, team member A1 dunks. Two minutes later A2 dunks.

RULING: A1 and A2 are both charged with a technical foul. In addition, the head coach is charged indirectly with a technical foul for each act. The two fouls are team fouls for purpose of reaching the bonus. When dunking occurs during the pregame practice period the official notifies the team member and the head coach, but does not sound the whistle. If the game is played in a state which utilizes the optional coaching box, the coach should be informed that he/she has lost the privilege of using the coaching box for the entire game. (10-5-1i)

How is this setting aside a rule? Your example is 15 minutes before game time and when you as an official are on the court (by other standards and expectations in the rules). The OP was a situation during the halftime of another game. Now if you feel that is the intent of the written rule, what about if the crew is not working the girl's game or the game before their game and they happened to be in the stands and see a player in their game dunk? What is some guy that you do not know is on either team dunks? You penalizing that too? Is that the spirit of the actual rule?

The rule does not say anytime during the pregame whether that be an hour or 20 minutes before the game. This all applies when the officials have jurisdiction over their game. Halftime of another game has nothing to do with the game the players are playing in. I guess you would also require the players to remove jewelry, illegal equipment or tell them to take off certain color sleeves or items that do not fit the color restrictions during the halftime of the previous games as well? And when they do not comply, are you going to not allow them to play or give them a technical foul if they do not follow your instructions?

Peace

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The rule does not say anytime during the pregame whether that be an hour or 20 minutes before the game. This all applies when the officials have jurisdiction over their game. Halftime of another game has nothing to do with the game the players are playing in. I guess you would also require the players to remove jewelry, illegal equipment or tell them to take off certain color sleeves or items that do not fit the color restrictions during the halftime of the previous games as well? And when they do not comply, are you going to not allow them to play or give them a technical foul if they do not follow your instructions?

Peace

The state I work in has adopted it's own rule. From an official online message to all basketball officials:

"Players may not dunk during the pregame warm-up before their game or during the half-time of the preceding game. Administration and coaches are responsible to make sure players do not dunk during these periods. Once officials arrive on the court if dunking occurs the penalty is a technical foul. The foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach and the coach loses his/her coaching box privilege for the remainder of the game. This rule is outlined in the basketball manual and is to be followed by all schools during the regular and post season."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

"Players may not dunk during the pregame warm-up before their game or during the half-time of the preceding game. Administration and coaches are responsible to make sure players do not dunk during these periods. Once officials arrive on the court if dunking occurs the penalty is a technical foul. The foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach and the coach loses his/her coaching box privilege for the remainder of the game. This rule is outlined in the basketball manual and is to be followed by all schools during the regular and post season."

The Grand Poobah has spoken.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The Grand Poobah has spoken.

The Wizard of Oz, as it were.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

The Wizard of Oz, as it were.

Or E.F. Hutton.

https://youtu.be/2_ygqPepLjM

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Or E.F. Hutton.

https://youtu.be/2_ygqPepLjM

Billy:

Are you channeling Uncle Miltie and stealing my jokes that I stole from others? LOL!

MTD, Sr.

[zm1283]

I love when state governing bodies make up stuff that directly goes against playing rules.

[LRZ]

If you are old enough and have been doing this long enough, you probably were schooled in an entirely different officiating philosophy than today's, which is dominated by automatics, required calls, limited discretion, and central office micromanaging. The situation that began this discussion is illustrative.

Sid Borgia, I believe, once said, "I don't call fouls, I dispense justice." Applied to school ball, that's an exaggeration, but the idea remains valid, embodied in notions like advantage/disadvantage and preventive officiating. When I began, we were taught to apply common sense to the rules and mechanics, then allowed to use our judgment and discretion in maintaining good game management.

Now, discretion is discouraged, and automatic calls of all sorts are mandated. I, for one, do not see this as improving the quality of officiating or of the flow of the game itself.

OK, I got that out of my system. I'm calm, now.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

The state I work in has adopted it's own rule. From an official online message to all basketball officials:

"Players may not dunk during the pregame warm-up before their game or during the half-time of the preceding game. Administration and coaches are responsible to make sure players do not dunk during these periods. Once officials arrive on the court if dunking occurs the penalty is a technical foul. The foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach and the coach loses his/her coaching box privilege for the remainder of the game. This rule is outlined in the basketball manual and is to be followed by all schools during the regular and post season."

Still (based on the text above), the officials for the game are not yet on the court for that game. Before that, it is on the administrators to deal with it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still, the officials for the game are not yet on the court for that game. Before that, it is on the administrators to deal with it.

Yes, but once they're on the court they may still be responsible to enforce illegal dunking for personnel who aren't actually in "their" game, especially for officials in a game previous to a boys varsity game.

Is the technical foul charged in the illegal dunking game or in the following game?

If in the illegal dunking game, is there a penalty for adding a name to the scorebook?

Is the indirect technical foul charged in the illegal dunking game or in the following game?

Who sits, the illegal dunking coach, or the following game coach?

Are the technical foul free throws taken in the illegal dunking game, or in the following game?

Many questions, few answers.

I'm glad that I can just ignore.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still (based on the text above), the officials for the game are not yet on the court for that game. Before that, it is on the administrators to deal with it.

We are told by the state, in no uncertain terms mind you, that we officials are to take note and penalize any pre-game dunking during the half time of the preceding game if we see it happen. We are not to ignore.

Does this situation happen? Yes. I've personally witnessed it occur during an off night for me while watching a crew work my hometown team two seasons ago (no I wasn't off duty "whistle blowing" on the player that dunked - just an observer). BV dunked during the half time of the preceding JV game. V officials happened to see it.

The state reminds us of this prior to every season during our rules meeting or during an area meeting.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

We are told by the state, in no uncertain terms mind you, that we officials are to take note and penalize any pre-game dunking during the half time of the preceding game if we see it happen. We are not to ignore ... BV dunked during the half time of the preceding JV game. V officials happened to see it.

When in Rome ..., so please answer me these:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is the technical foul charged in the illegal dunking game or in the following game?

If in the illegal dunking game, is there a penalty for adding a name to the scorebook?

Is the indirect technical foul charged in the illegal dunking game or in the following game?

Who sits, the illegal dunking coach, or the following game coach?

Are the technical foul free throws taken in the illegal dunking game, or in the following game?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

The state I work in has adopted it's own rule. From an official online message to all basketball officials:

"Players may not dunk during the pregame warm-up before their game or during the half-time of the preceding game. Administration and coaches are responsible to make sure players do not dunk during these periods. Once officials arrive on the court if dunking occurs the penalty is a technical foul. The foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach and the coach loses his/her coaching box privilege for the remainder of the game. This rule is outlined in the basketball manual and is to be followed by all schools during the regular and post season."

Then you needed to state that in your post where you basically accused those of not applying the rules. This is what your state does, not what everyone else does necessarily. That is a big piece of the puzzle or conversation you left out. But for the record, your reference in the casebook does not apply to this. I have never been told to penalize a player for pre-game activities of any kind during a game I had no jurisdiction over or that was not during the game or pre-game in question.

Peace

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then you needed to state that in your post where you basically accused those of not applying the rules. This is what your state does, not what everyone else does necessarily. That is a big piece of the puzzle or conversation you left out. But for the record, your reference in the casebook does not apply to this. I have never been told to penalize a player for pre-game activities of any kind during a game I had no jurisdiction over or that was not during the game or pre-game in question.

Peace

I didn't accuse. I asked if they/he/whoever supported it.

The answer was "no" along with some commentary.

Good enough for me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

I didn't accuse. I asked if they/he/whoever supported it.

The answer was "no" along with some commentary.

Good enough for me.

Well you said that those were setting aside the rules in this situation. But I am good if you are good with the current answers.

Peace