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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 12:28am
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Multiple pre-game dunks.

Saw this tonight in a BV game. During pre-game warm ups official says that two visiting players dunked, and one of them dunked twice. He said it would count as two personal fouls on A1 and one personal foul on A2. Coach would lose box, and Team B would start the game with 6 throws.

Is this right?
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 12:36am
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Originally Posted by referee99 View Post
Saw this tonight in a BV game. During pre-game warm ups official says that two visiting players dunked, and one of them dunked twice. He said it would count as two personal fouls on A1 and one personal foul on A2. Coach would lose box, and Team B would start the game with 6 throws.

Is this right?
Close, but no cigar.

The fouls are all technical fouls. The proper terminology is PLAYER technical foul. Instead of saying "personal" you should write "individual," but I'm sure that your meaning was the same.

A2 is disqualifed for being charged with two player technical fouls. He doesn't get to play tonight. A1 gets one and yes that counts towards his total of five for disqualification.

The Head Coach gets three indirect technical fouls. He not only loses the coaching box, but is actually disqualified as well.

Yes, Team B starts the game with 6 FTs and the ball at the division line.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 12:36am
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Originally Posted by referee99 View Post
Saw this tonight in a BV game. During pre-game warm ups official says that two visiting players dunked, and one of them dunked twice. He said it would count as two personal fouls on A1 and one personal foul on A2. Coach would lose box, and Team B would start the game with 6 throws.

Is this right?
You mean, technicals? They would be technical fouls and not personals....
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 12:41am
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How and when is the pre-game dunk technical administered? Shouldn't the officials immediately notify the coach and player of the technical, thereby averting any additional T's for the same dunking? I don't see how 3 T's for pre-game dunking can occur....
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 01:18am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post

A2 is disqualifed for being charged with two player technical fouls. He doesn't get to play tonight. A1 gets one and yes that counts towards his total of five for disqualification.

The Head Coach gets three indirect technical fouls. He not only loses the coaching box, but is actually disqualified as well.

Yes, Team B starts the game with 6 FTs and the ball at the division line.
Something I've always wanted to see. I have a little talk prepared:

"Excuse me, coach, may I have a word? Yeah, first of all, I just want to tell you that I admire what an athletic team you have. Yessir, you really got some guys with some hops. But, we do have a little problem with your guys throwing it down in the warmup. OK, we got 2 T's on #1, so he's gone. We also have a T on #2. So we're gonna start the game with 6 free throws and then the other guys are gonna have the ball. Oh, yeah, and one other thing, coach. You have to leave, too. You have a nice day, now."
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 01:33am
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In the conference I work in we had something similar but not as crazy. 2 guys dunked, 1 from each team. The R went up to both coaches and said "we can either start with 2 t's one on both teams/players/coach or we can just say they cancel each other out" Wouldn't you know it they opted for option 2
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 02:05am
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Originally Posted by MOofficial View Post
In the conference I work in we had something similar but not as crazy. 2 guys dunked, 1 from each team. The R went up to both coaches and said "we can either start with 2 t's one on both teams/players/coach or we can just say they cancel each other out" Wouldn't you know it they opted for option 2
Why did they ignore the rule? Hand out two T's and move on. Assuming it's a varsity game, they should know better.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 05:45am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Something I've always wanted to see. I have a little talk prepared:

"Excuse me, coach, may I have a word? Yeah, first of all, I just want to tell you that I admire what an athletic team you have. Yessir, you really got some guys with some hops. But, we do have a little problem with your guys throwing it down in the warmup. OK, we got 2 T's on #1, so he's gone. We also have a T on #2. So we're gonna start the game with 6 free throws and then the other guys are gonna have the ball. Oh, yeah, and one other thing, coach. You have to leave, too. You have a nice day, now."
JAR - you've got such a "court side" manner.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 07:51am
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Originally Posted by MOofficial View Post
In the conference I work in we had something similar but not as crazy. 2 guys dunked, 1 from each team. The R went up to both coaches and said "we can either start with 2 t's one on both teams/players/coach or we can just say they cancel each other out" Wouldn't you know it they opted for option 2
So if there are 2 T's as in this situation (1 for each team) because they're before the start of the game is it a double foul, or since they (most likely) occurred at different times it's like any other foul and you enforce in the order they happened?
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 08:13am
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Why did they ignore the rule? Hand out two T's and move on. Assuming it's a varsity game, they should know better.
I've always wondered why they make the officials deal with this kind of crap. If the schools don't want pre-game dunking to occur, let the coaches and game management deal with it, just like they'd have to deal with anything that happens after the final horn once we're away from the court.

In WI we have to be on the floor at 20:00 before the game. 20:00 is a long time to stand there and let all the stretching you've done go to waste. It would be much nicer if we could come out right at 12:00 and do the captains' meeting right away.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 08:18am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Something I've always wanted to see. I have a little talk prepared:

"Excuse me, coach, may I have a word? Yeah, first of all, I just want to tell you that I admire what an athletic team you have. Yessir, you really got some guys with some hops. But, we do have a little problem with your guys throwing it down in the warmup. OK, we got 2 T's on #1, so he's gone. We also have a T on #2. So we're gonna start the game with 6 free throws and then the other guys are gonna have the ball. Oh, yeah, and one other thing, coach. You have to leave, too. You have a nice day, now."
You WANT to see this? Seriously?

To me, pregame dunking would be a nightmare. I'd deal with it, but I know then I would lose any chance of having a civil relationship with that kid's coach (right or wrong) for the night.

I was working a boys game about 6 years ago when a kid from the visiting team went up and above the rim and kinda dropped the ball down from above without touching the rim. I almost had to whack the other coach who wouldn't quit asking me why that wasn't a technical and then tossed a rule book on the table while I was checking the books (it should've been a technical on the complaining coach, frankly, but I was stunned by this his pregame behavior -- didn't matter, the coach was properly whacked soon after the game started).

Sue me, but it had better be a grab the rim, no doubt about it dunk for me to get involved other than me stepping up and reminding the player not to be stupid.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 09:06am
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I was working a boys game about 6 years ago when a kid from the visiting team went up and above the rim and kinda dropped the ball down from above without touching the rim.
When this happens during warm ups, I'll go over to the plater with a warning. Usually they tighten up right then and it's no longer an issue.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 09:09am
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Originally Posted by Skarecrow View Post
How and when is the pre-game dunk technical administered? Shouldn't the officials immediately notify the coach and player of the technical, thereby averting any additional T's for the same dunking? I don't see how 3 T's for pre-game dunking can occur....
Still no answer to my question....Don't we IMMEDIATELY advise the coach? Why can we then have subsequent disqualifying T's called on the same player?
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 09:10am
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When this happens during warm ups, I'll go over to the plater with a warning. Usually they tighten up right then and it's no longer an issue.
During a V scrimmage earlier this yr I not only talked to the player, but also the coach - who proceeded to tear the player a new one! I doubt he or his fellow team mates will do it again.
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Old Thu Dec 18, 2008, 09:13am
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Originally Posted by MOofficial View Post
In the conference I work in we had something similar but not as crazy. 2 guys dunked, 1 from each team. The R went up to both coaches and said "we can either start with 2 t's one on both teams/players/coach or we can just say they cancel each other out" Wouldn't you know it they opted for option 2
The R is a coward. Why are people so afraid of handing down the proper penalties?

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Originally Posted by cdoug View Post
So if there are 2 T's as in this situation (1 for each team) because they're before the start of the game is it a double foul, or since they (most likely) occurred at different times it's like any other foul and you enforce in the order they happened?
False double foul due to the likely time difference = penalize in the order of occurrence.
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