Varsity player dunks during JV halftime

[BayStateRef]

Halftime of JV boys game. Varsity player, in uniform with warmup top, joins the JV players for shoot-around. He dunks while the refs are on the court.

Is this varsity player a "team member" and thus given a T for the ilegal dunk? 4-34-4 says a team member is "a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player." 4-34-2 says bench personnel are "all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and statistician(s)."

Our board interpreter said it should be a T for the dunk and the official should have the scorer add the varsity player to the score book. Then it is a second T for the administrative penalty.

I am having a hard time getting past the definition of "team member." I read the key language of 4-34-2 "including, but not limited to..." as referring to other non-players such as trainers, injured players not in uniform but sitting on the bench, etc. I do not see how it includes a varsity player who is not on the bench nor part of the JV team. But...there can be no doubt a varsity player is "affiliated" with the JV team.

The irony is this came up at our board meeting on Thursday night, when the interpreter explained how this should be handled. And a ref I worked with on Sunday said he had the exact play in his game on Friday night. So the officials handled it as directed by the interpreter. But the JV coach was not happy that the opponents got to start the second half with four free throws and the ball.

[Junker]

Sounds like it was handled right. I'm hoping the JV coach was unhappy with the player and himself, not the officials. It wasn't them who let the player on the floor in uniform and had him dunk.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by BayStateRef
But the JV coach was not happy that the opponents got to start the second half with four free throws and the ball.

Then the JV Coach should keep the Varsity player off "his" court. If he does not have any more control over the players than this...then the punishment fits the crime.
(Especially if that is what your board interp wants)

[ChuckElias]

I'm in MA, and I've heard no such interpretation, either from the international organization or from the state board. I would be VERY reluctant to T the varsity player in that situation. I would prefer to simply move them off the court. In my humble opinion, I don't think the varsity player qualifies as bench personnel for the JV game.

[JRutledge]

Just tell the varsity player to get off the court and move on. I would not give a T for a non-player dunking the ball when that player is not directly associated with the team. I think giving a T is looking for trouble.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I'm in MA, and I've heard no such interpretation, either from the international organization or from the state board. I would be VERY reluctant to T the varsity player in that situation. I would prefer to simply move them off the court. In my humble opinion, I don't think the varsity player qualifies as bench personnel for the JV game.

How do you know if the suited-up player is on the V or the JV squad?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
How do you know if the suited-up player is on the V or the JV squad?

BayStateRef said he was on the V.

Are you asking how he knew? Two possibilities, at least. One, the JV's often are wearing different uniforms from the V squad. If not, then: two, a quick question at the table.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I'm in MA, and I've heard no such interpretation, either from the international organization or from the state board. I would be VERY reluctant to T the varsity player in that situation. I would prefer to simply move them off the court. In my humble opinion, I don't think the varsity player qualifies as bench personnel for the JV game.

I'm not sure that was the correct way to handle the situation either Chuck. From the definition originally given of bench personnel, the varsity player does not fit. It said something to the effect of anyone "eligible to play/enter the game." The varsity player is not eligible to participate. I wouldn't T here just remove and warn both he a JV/Varsity coach. But if you do T here, I bet it wont happen again.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

BayStateRef said he was on the V.

Are you asking how he knew? Two possibilities, at least. One, the JV's often are wearing different uniforms from the V squad. If not, then: two, a quick question at the table.

No, I'm asking you.

A1, suited up with warmup on dunks 14 minutes before the JV game is about to start.

Since you're hesitant to T a varsity player in this situation, do you go & ask him which team he plays for?

Or the table?

Or JV coach A?

What's your process to determine A1 is on the varsity squad & not the JV squad?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
What's your process to determine A1 is on the varsity squad & not the JV squad?

I would ask the team's scorer. "Is that guy on the JV squad list?" He/She won't know why I'm asking, so I will most likely get an honest answer.

[dblref]

The varsity player is not eligible to participate

Why is s/he not eligible to participate? Is there a specific rule that says a varsity person cannot play in a JV contest? I know that some JV player also play in varsity contests. My son did it several times as a freshman.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I would ask the team's scorer. "Is that guy on the JV squad list?" He/She won't know why I'm asking, so I will most likely get an honest answer.

So this is your practice ANY time a player dunks pregame or at the half?

What if she says no?

[RookieDude]

Chuck and JRut...
Why is there a rule requiring the officials to issue a T to a "player" dunking the ball during warm-ups?

IMO...I could care less if the players dunk the ball while I'm on the court. In fact, I would like to see it...who doesn't like to see a dunk? But, it is not my decision...it is what the NFHS (and apparently the board interp) wants...a T.

So back to the original question. For whatever reason NFHS does not want dunks during pregame. (Injuries, showing up officials, Sportsmanship issues, etc.)

So why are you giving the "show off" Varsity player a free pass in the JV warm-ups, when you wouldn't in the V warm-ups?

Also...not that it matters much...but, there could be some confusion in the crowd. Why are the officials letting this "player" dunk (penalty free), when they won't let the other "players" dunk? Looks inconsistent...IMO.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

No, I'm asking you.

A1, suited up with warmup on dunks 14 minutes before the JV game is about to start.

Since you're hesitant to T a varsity player in this situation, do you go & ask him which team he plays for?

Or the table?

Or JV coach A?

What's your process to determine A1 is on the varsity squad & not the JV squad?

The original post said its halftime. 1. So the face probably should be familiar. 2. Most JV players dont come out of halftime w/warm-ups on. 3. Check his #, or ask before you T. If he is JV, then WHACK. If he is Varsity then run him off the court, tell him he could cost the JV coach his box and 2 free throws. Then tell the V and JV coaches.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops

The original post said its halftime. 1. So the face probably should be familiar. 2. Most JV players dont come out of halftime w/warm-ups on. 3. Check his #, or ask before you T. If he is JV, then WHACK. If he is Varsity then run him off the court, tell him he could cost the JV coach his box and 2 free throws. Then tell the V and JV coaches.

Nate, I don't care when it happens.

I'm just wondering how Chuck (and you) handle this in general. I see in your case you give him a warning. A warning for what?