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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 15, 2018, 10:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
... they have some sh!tty sportsmanship ...
I'm fairly certain that it's not the officials who allow the players to wear illegal undershirts, it's most likely the host AAU organization (game management) that instructs the officials not to enforce the rule (maybe teams have reversible jerseys, and don't know in advance what color jersey, or undershirt, they'll be wearing from game to game). So I find fault with game management, not the officials.

As it stands, this game is a mess, lots of borderline stuff, language, body language, boasting, bragging, posturing, etc., that would get a, "Knock it off", from me in my high school game, probably not technical fouls, but this stuff wouldn't be ignored for fear that it would escalate into something that would require technical fouls, possibly a fight.

I could be wrong, but maybe this game could be a little more sporting if the officials showed up pregame and told both teams that the undershirt rule would be enforced, forcing all players to conform.

It just sets the tone of, "We're in charge of the rules guys, we're watching you, we pay attention, we don't ignore anything, including the color of equipment, and more importantly, unsporting acts".

Just my two cents. I haven't worked a game like this in a long, long time, so I could be way off on my assertation.

I'm so pleased that I don't work games like this anymore. No bleachers, so fans are right on the boundaries. Multiple gyms and multiple whistles. Back in the day, when I needed the money, and the experience, I worked these games, no more.

I would love to tell the loudmouth knucklehead, #24, and the horse that he rode in on, to tuck in his jersey.

Yeah, I know that I'm tilting at windmills here, but the video was really difficult for me to watch.

I would expect sportsmanship like this in an outdoor playground game, on an asphalt court, maybe half court, with metal chain nets, skins versus shirts, with no officials in sight, with kids just playing for the right to stay on the court for the "next game".

I would not expect sportsmanship like this inside a gym, on a real court, with real uniforms, with a scoreboard, with a scorekeeper, with coaches, and with three officials.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Sep 16, 2018 at 04:36pm.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 18, 2018, 08:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'm fairly certain that it's not the officials who allow the players to wear illegal undershirts, it's most likely the host AAU organization (game management) that instructs the officials not to enforce the rule (maybe teams have reversible jerseys, and don't know in advance what color jersey, or undershirt, they'll be wearing from game to game). So I find fault with game management, not the officials.
If you are familiar with any AAU or travel-like tournaments, the point is to have kids play. There is no emphasis on having proper jerseys as stated in the NF or NCAA Rules in most of these events. It is not totally unusual to get numbers that are higher than 5 sometimes as well. Honestly, no one cares about these rules other than a state or NCAA when they are playing their particular contests. So even trying to put some standard that no one cares about is rather silly if you understand the purpose of these tournaments. Most officials in "real" games do not care, so why would some off-season tournament that does not even influence someone's career in a positive or negative way by doing these games?

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 18, 2018, 09:25am
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Tilt At Windmills ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
If you are familiar with any AAU ...
I'm not, at least not recently, as stated in my post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... I could be wrong ... Just my two cents. I haven't worked a game like this in a long, long time, so I could be way off on my assertation ... I don't work games like this anymore ... no more ... Yeah, I know that I'm tilting at windmills here ...
This idiom definition (below), with my post quote (above), pretty much says that your post isn't off the mark.

Tilt At Windmills: To waste time fighting enemies or trying to resolve issues that are imaginary, not as important, or impossible to overcome.

If I ever found myself working an AAU game, which will never happen, I would certainly just follow the rules that game management wants me to enforce. No more, no less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Most officials in "real" games do not care ...
Only regarding high school interscholastic games (not AAU), with your experience and success, I would certainly believe that this isn't you. Nor would I believe that you, as a clinician/trainer would instruct your members to ignore this aspect of the high school interscholastic game, and would point out any problems if someone you were evaluating choses to ignore this issue in said games. It wouldn't be the most important issue to critic (it may be the least important), but it should be, at least, mentioned, especially since it's such as easy rule to understand now that the NFHS has decided to completely remove the phrase "school color" from the rulebook.

If by "most" you mean over 50%, I would say that you're a little off with you're math, but not by much.

I pains me to say this, but many of our local subvarsity guys, and a few varsity guys, choose to ignore such rules (undershirts) in high school interscholastic games. Having served on our two main training committees (rules and mechanics), I know that that's not what they were trained to do. Some may not completely understand such rules, some aren't observant enough to enforce such rules, and some simply chose to ignore such rules.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Sep 18, 2018 at 11:32am.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 18, 2018, 09:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'm not, at least not recently.



Tilt At Windmills: To waste time fighting enemies or trying to resolve issues that are imaginary, not as important, or impossible to overcome.
Did somebody here need a clarification as to what "tilting at windmills" means?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 18, 2018, 09:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Only regarding high school interscholastic games (not AAU), with your experience and success, I would certainly believe that this isn't you. Nor do I believe that you, as a clinician/trainer would instruct your members to ignore this aspect of the interscholastic game, and would point out any problems if someone you were evaluating choses to ignore this issue.

I pains me to say this, but many of our subvarsity guys, and a few varsity guys, choose to ignore such.
During summer games we do not tell players to be in specific uniforms for the most obvious reasons. Most of the time you might not even have normal rules you are playing by, like players will not foul out. It is not unusual to not even have numbers on the jerseys used.

This was not a regular game situation (that was obvious), the officials were in shorts. I doubt anyone cared about an undershirt in this situation or many other rules. Sometimes you do not even have regular bench areas and I doubt anyone in their right mind is expecting someone to stay in a coaching box either. You might be lucky if you even have a coaching box at all.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 18, 2018, 09:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Did somebody here need a clarification as to what "tilting at windmills" means?
Possibly, or maybe some didn't understand that my original post was just me giving my opinion on something as one who sometimes views the game through rose colored glasses.

I always knew that my issue was a waste of time, not very important, and almost impossible to overcome.

But I guess that I had to be reminded.

Maybe my original post didn't say that in a clear enough manner?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Sep 18, 2018 at 10:17am.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 18, 2018, 10:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Sometimes you do not even have regular bench areas ...
When I did work AAU games, which was many, many years ago, I worked a game where the benches were on opposite endlines, with the scorekeeper on one endline. Generated a lot of questions from coaches regarding who fouled, and also presented some problems getting substitutes into the game as quickly as the coaches wanted ("Subs. Subs. Subs."). Getting stuck working on one of the "middle" courts where whistles, and horns, could be heard from different directions was a real problem for some of the players, stopping for no reason other than that they assumed the whistle, or horn, was on their court.

Quoth the Raven "Nevermore." (The Raven, Edgar Allan Poe, 1845)

Yeah, the raven got that right.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Sep 18, 2018 at 12:03pm.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 18, 2018, 01:25pm
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There is no question that AAU, summer camps, etc. have games where rules are vastly changed/modified to suit the venue. Indeed, officials too may be wearing shorts, shirts not tucked, non-black shoes, (I've seen some wearing hats) etc. in such venues. Die-hard and detailed rules are rarely enforced as the intent is to have players go up and down the court. Many times, AAU tournaments featuring high-profile players can get very rough but everyone understand the intent, including the players who usually are quite good about that type of play. If 2 post big/talented post players are banging each other all game long, with no ill will/intent, and the play is still good, nobody cares. As another example if 2 guards are really going at each other with hand checks and strong play, nobody cares. It is a time to really apply advantage/disadvantage principles.

I also find that there is a slight difference between "ignoring" and "not caring." I feel that ignoring involves being fully aware of something and intentionally not addressing it. In my area, many officials simply do not care about proper equipment/clothing. During warm-ups, they do not care to even look at players and how they are dressed. When it comes to knowing the rules about proper attire, they simply do not care to bother with reading them. I've questioned officials many times about a particular's player's attire and they have no clue if it is fully legal. Don't get me wrong, I certainly do not go searching for a player to bust for illegal attire either.

Just my quick 7 cents. Never understood why the phrase involved 2 cents. Billy, no need to give me an explanation to pad your posting stats as I am researching it on my own now, lol.
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