Change Out Of Bounds Call ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Whether, or not, the visual call, or oral call, or both, can be changed is another topic. In some very specific cases officials routinely change calls (out of bounds call, partner comes in with a much better look, calling official decides to change call).

I brought this (above) over from another thread because I wanted to confirm that official can actually do this, i.e., change his out of bounds call.

I've been routinely doing this (out of bounds call, partner comes in with a much better look, calling official decides to change call) as the calling, or noncalling, official for almost four decades, but, until now, I never sought out a rules reference.

I perused the NFHS Rulebook, and NFHS Casebook, and annual interpretations, and could find no such reference.

I did find this (below) in the IAABO Mechanics Manual.

Violation Procedures
B. Violation Reminders
2. Officials may seek help or offer help to ensure accurate rulings.

I don't have access to a NFHS Mechanics Manual.

Is it only a mechanic, and not a rule, or interpretation, that allows an official to change his out of bounds call (or other violations)?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is it only a mechanic, and not a rule, or interpretation, that allows an official to change his out of bounds call (or other violations)?

Is this microphone working?

All I need is a "Yes", or "No", answer (maybe with a rule, or interpretation, citation if the answer is "No").

How about a citation from the NFHS Mechanics Manual (not available to me)?

[JRutledge]

I have a manual and I could not find a single reference about how to handle out of bounds calls or changes to those calls if the partners have a different position.

There are too many things that we deal with that the manual never addresses or if it does address the situation, it does not address the actual real-world situation.

And maybe why we should stop relying so heavily on everything stated in these books when they do not cover all kinds of situations. I believe the CCA Manual does cover this, but I would have to look it up for a specific reference.

Peace

[Lcubed48]

Yes

5.3.2 Primary Coverage Areas Section E Line Coverage #5 (page 75).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Lcubed48

Yes

5.3.2 Primary Coverage Areas Section E Line Coverage #5 (page 75).

Thank you.

Billy, please don't make an additional 10 posts replying to yourself.

[walt]

Yes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Thank you.

Billy, please don't make an additional 10 posts replying to yourself.

I wish that would end it too. But unfortunately, this reference does not state how that is done exactly. It just references that the ruling can be made by an official outside the primary, but they should give the primary official first opportunity. It does not say how you do that or when you do that related to a foul or violation.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have a manual and I could not find a single reference about how to handle out of bounds calls or changes to those calls if the partners have a different position.

Thanks for looking. In the IAABO Mechanics Manual it's under "Violations". Maybe likewise in the NFHS manual, or a college manual?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Lcubed48

Yes.

Originally Posted by walt

Yes.

So it's only a mechanic, and not a rule, or interpretation, that allows an official to change his out of bounds call.



Thanks guys.

[BillyMac]

NFHS Rule 2 Section 6 Officials’ Authority: No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties.

This NFHS rule (above) says that we can't overrule our partner.

This IAABO mechanic (below) says the we can offer help on (but not overrule) violations:

IAABO Mechanic Violations: Officials may seek help or offer help to ensure accurate rulings.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS Rule 2 Section 6 Officials’ Authority: No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties.

This NFHS rule (above) says that we can't overrule our partner.

This IAABO mechanic (below) says the we can offer help on (but not overrule) violations:

IAABO Mechanic Violations: Officials may seek help or offer help to ensure accurate rulings.

When did the discussion change to overruling a partner? You give your partner information.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

When did the discussion change to overruling a partner?

It didn't, but this rule citation was the only one I could find that had anything to do with changing calls.

As IAABO officials, we are told never to overrule our partner, as the NFHS rule tells us, but that mechanics allow us to offer help when needed.

BillyMac: "Blue ball" (After ball goes out of bounds, and whistle is sounded).
Partner: (Sounds whistle and takes several steps toward BillyMac) "Did you see that the ball touched Blue 22's finger right before it went out of bounds? I got a great look at it, and you may have been straightlined."
BillyMac: "Thanks for the help. (Sounds whistle) White ball."
Partner: "By the way BillyMac, you're calling a great game tonight and, if I might add, you're looking exceedingly handsome tonight".

From my pregame: For out-of-bounds help, let's get it right. If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional
signal. No need to come to me, just point. If you don't know, give me a jump ball signal. If I signal, but
I get it wrong, then blow the whistle, and come to me. Tell me what you saw, and let me decide if I’m
going to change it.

[JRutledge]

As I said before, the NF Mechanics does not get specific about many things that can happen or based on what actually do in the real world. This is one of many examples. There are things that have multiple real-world things we might do that never is mentioned on any level in the NF Mechanics book. Even in the CCA Manual, there are things you never hear talked about in detail that you would hear at a camp. Mechanics books are guides of mostly where to stand and what to do like on a switch after a foul. I do not know why people are surprised when the NF book never covers things we might even talk about on this site or what is discussed in a meeting.

Peace

[just another ref]

I believe the appropriate quote for this situation goes something like:

"Sometimes, you gotta just referee."

[bucky]

Yes, just use the catch-all rule: Rule 2 section 3.