NFHS Update

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Freddy

The quote from the later released "Comment..." apparently answers that. The deflection does take place "in" the frontcourt and the frontcourt status of the ball remains when it's touched by an offensive player who then is standing in the backcourt. That's the same condition expressed in that "situation 7" you cite.

Indeed, after my post I read the comments. Thanks for clarification.

(could never get over Simon's giant mouth)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

(could never get over Simon's giant mouth)

James Taylor found it to be beautiful (at least for a few years).

[JRutledge]

Again I think some here are making this too complicated. We will only know for sure when they come out with the new interpretations (that are more than one interpretation).

All we know is what they have changed. The "unusual" interpretation that was so controversial did not follow the rules at the time was either changed to reflect this new rule or it was kept for some reason. Either way, that has nothing to do with the NCAA Rule, because the NCAA Rule was the same as the NF Rule for years and they did not have such a silly interpretation. We will only know when all the literature comes out. I would hope they would address this as they made a POE to discuss this before last season.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We will only know for sure when they come out with the new interpretations. All we know is what they have changed. We will only know when all the literature comes out.

You certainly may be right, but without any additional rule changes (and we've seen them all in the press release) I don't see the current (new) rule doing anything other than fixing the unusual interpretation. I don't see an editorial change (or likewise) making a big impact on the backcourt rule without further rule change language, and, like I've said, we've already seen all the rule changes.

We'll just have to wait and see, but my money's on just the unusual interpretation fix, but I wouldn't bet my house on it, just a few bucks. We all know that the NFHS is certainly capable of doing some odd things with some odd unintended consequences.

I'm still waiting for the NFHS to clean up the "team control throwin only for fouls not for backcourt" fiasco with an actual rule change, not with just a Point of Emphasis (that's not available to new officials). I'm not going to hold my breath until that happens.

Remember this:

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
2. Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds. With specific regard to the backcourt violation; a team may not be the last to touch a live ball in the front court and then be the first to touch a live ball in the backcourt, provided that team has establish player control/team control on the playing court (either in the backcourt or frontcourt). BY RULE EXCEPTION, during a throw-in a team may leave the front court, establish player control/team control while airborne and land in the backcourt. This is a legal play and ONLY applies to the first player of the offense who touches the ball PRIOR to the end of the throw-in.

How are new officials to know this without access to a 2017-18 NFHS Rulebook?

Stupid NFHS.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You certainly may be right, but without any additional rule changes (and we've seen them all in the press release) I don't see the current (new) rule doing anything other than fixing the unusual interpretation. I don't see an editorial change (or likewise) making a big impact on the backcourt rule without further rule change language, and, like I've said, we've already seen all the rule changes.

We'll just have to wait and see, but my money's on just the unusual interpretation fix, but I wouldn't bet my house on it, just a few bucks. We all know that the NFHS is certainly capable of doing some odd things with some odd unintended consequences.

Again I do not get why people think this is about one interpretation.

They adopted the NCAA language about a deflection. There are more kinds of deflection than just the one in that interpretation.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again I do not get why people think this is about one interpretation.

Again:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Please offer how the NFHS rule change impacts a play other than the "unusual interpretation".

Originally Posted by Freddy

It can't. This wording won't allow any change but for that misguided 2006-07 and 2017-18 Interpretation: "An EXCEPTION added to the backcourt violation (9-9-1): To ensure that an offensive team is not unfairly penalized when the ball is deflected by the defense from the frontcourt to the backcourt. This exception allows the offense to recover the ball (that still has frontcourt status) in the backcourt without penalty." ("Basketball Comments on the Rules", May 17, 2018). By stating that they're applying this only to a deflected ball "that still has frontcourt status," this change cannot go as far as the NCAA-M did as their backcourt rule was revised last year to say, "Art. 5. A pass or any other loose ball in the front court that is deflected by a defensive player, which causes the ball to go into the backcourt may be recovered by either team even if the offense was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt."

Originally Posted by Freddy

The quote from the later released "Comment..." apparently answers that. The deflection does take place "in" the frontcourt and the frontcourt status of the ball remains when it's touched by an offensive player who then is standing in the backcourt. That's the same condition expressed in that "situation 7" you cite.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There are more kinds of deflection than just the one in that interpretation.

... that are already covered by existing (or preexisting) NFHS rules.

Please cite one type of deflection that isn't already covered by existing (or preexisting) NFHS rules, including the new rule.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That are already covered by existing (or preexisting) NFHS rules.

Please cite one type of deflection that isn't already covered by existing (or preexisting) NFHS rules, including the new rule.

I really do not have the energy to. Again we will find out when all the literature comes out from the NF in all their publications.

I do not get why I would have to try to prove something when none of us are going to edit the rulebooks or casebooks either way.

It is OK, it will be published soon I would suspect. Deal with it then.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I really do not have the energy to. Again we will find out when all the literature comes out ...

And I need to get to the gym, and then to church for the vigil mass.

Nice debate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... none of us are going to edit the rulebooks or casebooks ...

Speak for yourself. I'm one (which is one more than "none") of "us" and I've personally suggested three rule changes that have become part of the NFHS Rulebook.

(And when one suggests a new or revised rule, besides offering a logical rationale, one also has to make any and all necessary edits to the NFHS Casebook affected by said rule change.)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They adopted the NCAA language about a deflection.

That certainly is one way of viewing at it. It can also be viewed it as the NFHS adopting language that was in the bitterly criticized "unusual interpretation", and their remedy for such bitterly criticized language.

In regard to the game of basketball, "deflection" is an oft used word. The NCAA uses it in their backcourt rule, but the NFHS has also used it in a bitterly criticized interpretation. Some may view that it is the latter language that lead to the recent NFHS rule change. And others may differ with that view.