update

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Latest results are a pair of wins the week before Christmas, and a split at a tournament last weekend. We lost in the first round by four (gave away a five-point lead with five minutes left), but came back with a fun come-from-behind win in overtime of the consolation game. We were down by eight with six minutes to go and rallied back. We had a chance to win at the buzzer, but instead went 5-for-5 in OT to win by eight. One of my two senior stars scored her 1,000th point during the OT, and she is at 999 rebounds! (The other is at 915 points, so hopefully we get to do it again in 2-3 weeks.) We are up to 8-3.

The part that interests you guys:
I'd say three out of four good official performances in the two games. Two good ones in the consolation. In the first round, the one rarely called anything. Sure, could be coincidence, but I'd guess that the one guy made 80% of the foul calls. The guy who made all the calls is a good official, but watching the tape, he missed a couple key ones that went against us. (I probably don't rewind and play the calls that go our way 3 or 4 times to decide he missed one in our favor! )

One play that bugged me. The one with no pea in his whistle was T while we were on defense, and we got a steal and went in for a layup. The defender pushed my shooter on the hip during the shot, obvious to me on the bench and on the tape. But on the tape I could see that the T becoming L didn't really run too hard, and ended up being straightlined on the play. Should this really be happening to varsity level officials? Either sprint and get there or stop short and give yourself an angle on the play, right?

[LarryS]

Wow, a double-quadruple. Congrats on the winning record.

As far as the official getting beat down court. I agree he should go for the angle if he is not going to make it into position. However, he may have thought he was going to have an angle until it was too late to adjust. You're right he shouldn't constantly get beat down court. Maybe there was a reason; not feeling 100%, had to fire somebody at work (I had to do that to a single parent...sure was hard to get into the flow that night), up all night with a sick kid, etc. May want to cut him a little slack. I did something to my knee Saturday late in the last game. By the end of the game it hurt to stand, much less beat the players down court. Just took advantage of angles and did the best I could. If you haven't picked it up from the other post I have made...Saturday was not one of my best days.

By the way, start counting the mistakes in your favor and see if they even out with the ones against you. Just kidding.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by LarryS
By the way, start counting the mistakes in your favor and see if they even out with the ones against you. Just kidding.

There are no mistakes in our favor, just good calls

It is interesting to hear some coaches describe results of games. One of my opponents has lost 3 close games to us this year, but then again, we got all the calls down the stretch in each of those games. I guess hangin' with you guys is starting to pay off. Where do I send the checks, cause the trophies sure look nice and we really appreciate the assistance.

[ScottParks]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

There are no mistakes in our favor, just good calls

It is interesting to hear some coaches describe results of games. One of my opponents has lost 3 close games to us this year, but then again, we got all the calls down the stretch in each of those games. I guess hangin' with you guys is starting to pay off. Where do I send the checks, cause the trophies sure look nice and we really appreciate the assistance.

Sounds like a coach I had in a tournament game last Thursday. Coach of a 5A girls school whose team is getting drubbed by a 2A school (defending state champs from 1A last year) says to me, "I know we're getting whooped on the floor, but you gotta help us out". I said "coach, I don't help out anybody, I just call what I see!"

Her look was priceless

[just another ref]

Originally posted by ScottParks
"I know we're getting whooped on the floor, but you gotta help us out". [/B]

Along those lines, what I hear most often is "Give us a break!"

I tell 'em, "If you want charity, go to the Salvation Army."

[Nevadaref]

Comment by a coach from a school with an enrollment of about 500 playing against a school with over 2000 just after I called a 3 second violation against his player:
"Oh, please! I only have a couple hundred kids. You have to give me an extra second in the lane!"
I was still chuckling in 4th Q.
Smaller school lost by 3 in OT.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
One play that bugged me. The one with no pea in his whistle was T while we were on defense, and we got a steal and went in for a layup. The defender pushed my shooter on the hip during the shot, obvious to me on the bench and on the tape. But on the tape I could see that the T becoming L didn't really run too hard, and ended up being straightlined on the play. Should this really be happening to varsity level officials? Either sprint and get there or stop short and give yourself an angle on the play, right?

Sometimes, the players don't do what we expect -- and we work for a good angle only to get straightlined.

In your play, for example, the official might expect the swipe at the ball play -- so he moves to be even with the ball. This makes him straight-lined with the push on the hip.

Or, he could have moved toward the center of the court to see between the players, but then he wouldn't have a look at the front of the dribbler to see whether the swipe missed, got the ball, got the player.

[Ridge Wiz]

I really don't like to see the L official lag behind a 1 - 1 fast break. Remember this was the T just a few seconds ago & the steal was probably in their primary. As T she/he probably has a few feet of a head start but they can't stay ahead of the play for 50'. As a player I so happend to be fairly good at stripping the ball if the shooter doesn't protect the ball at the waist. As an official I want be in the proper position to reward hustle/skill by the defense & offense in a half court play or fast break.
Last weekend I saw the L trott down the floor & stop at the foul-line for the "good angle" on a 1 - 1 fast break. B1(defender) made a good strip as A1 brought the ball up for the layup. However, the L rewarded A1 with 2 free shots. I know we all have bad days & maybe this was a bad day for this guy. Generally speaking I make a point to be ahead of the fast break, but that's just me.

[LarryS]

Originally posted by Ridge Wiz
I really don't like to see the L official lag behind a 1 - 1 fast break. Remember this was the T just a few seconds ago & the steal was probably in their primary. As T she/he probably has a few feet of a head start but they can't stay ahead of the play for 50'. As a player I so happend to be fairly good at stripping the ball if the shooter doesn't protect the ball at the waist. As an official I want be in the proper position to reward hustle/skill by the defense & offense in a half court play or fast break.
Last weekend I saw the L trott down the floor & stop at the foul-line for the "good angle" on a 1 - 1 fast break. B1(defender) made a good strip as A1 brought the ball up for the layup. However, the L rewarded A1 with 2 free shots. I know we all have bad days & maybe this was a bad day for this guy. Generally speaking I make a point to be ahead of the fast break, but that's just me.

I don't think any of us LIKE to see an official get beat on a 1-1 fast break (especially when it's us). But it's gonna happen. The steal may not have been in his primary, the break may have been the result of a long outlet pass. What if the turnover was slightly behind him in his primary? If I step down for a better angle and the ball goes out to a teammate who pops out high near center-court, I don't necessarily move if I have a clear line of sight between the players. I wait to see if the ball is going to keep moving because I may have great position after the next pass, thus I had position on all three match-ups and never took a step. If the steal happens in that situation, they have a headstart on me and are almost 30 years younger...they are probably going to beat me down court. If you can catch and pass them in that situation, good for you.

I do agree that officials should not jog down the court. But if the teams have been running all game and I KNOW I going to get beat I will occassionally just move for what I think will be the best angle. I hustle to that stop, but I don't try to catch them...never been nailed for that by an evaluator (yet).

By the way, was the "good strip" from your angle or the officials? Could the officail have seen a foul with the other hand?

[Ridge Wiz]

Larry,
I agree with you on all the possibles of when/why we can't always be ahead of the play. And I'm probably not as good of an official as the guy I'm talking about. I make mistakes every game but I put forth much effort to work a game. As we all know it is much easier to make statements about a sitch. here on a web page or at a game from the sideline than when you are on the floor & have to make that split-second decision.

Of course his angle was different than mine. I was not working the game. I don't mean to be too critical because I have made the same call in similar cases. I guess my point is that I really make a big effort to be ahead of the play, except with your noted exceptions.

[Mregor]

Why are some people afraid of getting beat down the court? It's not a bad thing as long as you are hustling. I'm not referring to the specific play at the beginning of the thread, just in general. When I work trail, I always try to take a step to the basket as the shot goes up or as A drives the lane to provide backside help to the lead. On occasion, a long rebound or a clean strip and outlet pass, I'll get beat. As was previously mentioned, try to get the angle. I also try to stop so that I'm not moving when I need to make a call (I find I can see things more clearly when my head isn't moving). I've read numerous articles in Referee magazine that lead me to this philosophy. I think the chance of missing a backside call on the other end outweigh the chance of blowing a call by being beat on a fast break. Who can keep up with most of these kids anyway? As a whole, people are to quick to blame officials for the game not going there way. We are the only ones on the court who don't care who wins. People are always going to disagree with calls; it's the nature of the contest. Officials make mistakes, even good ones. Have you ever heard a coach complain when a call goes their way. Even once? How's this, "Mr. Referee, the defender got all ball on that block, give my oponent the ball OOB instead of me taking these unwarranted free throws." More games are lost by bad passes than bad calls.

Now if the official was not hustling or making calls out of their area or not in position the majority of the time, then he/she probably doesn't deserve to be at that level. Bring it up to the AD / Commish / Assignor and let them handle it. At the least, the official will know what the perception of his/her abilities are and will either try to improve or not.

Mregor

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

I'm w/ Mregor on this one....

You will get many more backside rebounding calls correct and really clean up board play when as the trail taking a couple of steps down on the shot. If we do have a long rebound going the other way then buttonhook and see it from the back side. As long as you get a good angle and SEE THE WHOLE PLAY why should it matter which side of it you are on??? I have seen way too many officials miss calls on fast-breaks such as this because they were working too hard to beat the players down the court and thus effectively straight-lined themselves or did not see the play because they were running at the point of contact and missed it. If you can comfortably beat the players down court and get an angle fine, if not don't give up on the play and see it from the backside. Just be aware of other players coming down the court so as you do not get caught in the middle of the play...