Camp Reviews/Info? Sticky?

[Raymond]

I am not sure of your point. I work the EYBL every spring and we use full NCAA rules. I work other camps where the officiating camp directors don't even know what rules are being used.

I've never heard of a camp where campers get sent home. That is new to me.

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[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I am not sure of your point. I work the EYBL every spring and we use full NCAA rules. I work other camps where the officiating camp directors don't even know what rules are being used.

I've never heard of a camp where campers get sent home. That is new to me.

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Earlier in this thread, a user remarked that camp directors do not care about NCAA rules "Supervisors don't care about rules differences" were the words used. To my understanding, camps for evaluating and hiring college officials were as likely to use HS as college rules, and this is surprising when the specific purpose of those camps is to evaluate college officials. This is why I mentioned the Big Ten camp, as that could be either an exception to that pattern, or an interesting trend of its own (DI camps use NCAA rules because that is what veteran college officials who would try out for DI conferences are most familiar with, whereas JUCO/DIII camps use high school rules, because that is what HS officials wanting to break into college know).

If the Big Ten Consortium Camp (and the other DI consortium camps) are tryout camps, it would make sense for an official to be sent home if evaluators do not believe that he could be hired. I suspect that the MEAC camp does not send people home, but then you would have needed to either have good recommendations or to go there multiple times to get hired there.

[JRutledge]

You really need to stop. Seriously just stop. No one is being sent home for during camps as a norm or even as a practice. I attended 3 camps this summer where the camps are used to help determine who might be hired for the BIG Consortium and no one was ever sent home. Many of the officials that attend these camps have absolutely no chance of being hired for all kinds of reasons. They are either too young, too inexperienced or just not good enough and no one is sending a person home because they do not perform to a certain standard. Most of these camps did not even use college rules.

For one sending people home would kind of ruin the entire structure of the camp to have the games covered for the event. You start sending people home you have to change the entire schedule and create holes in who was working the games that would still have to be filled. It is rare that they ask people to cover a game in the first place, let alone for someone not able to work for injury or someone leaving early. And many camps like this, people are states away from the location and sent hundreds of dollars. I would not be good business if people are doing those things and then you randomly sending people away that will not be hired. I personally was more than 3 hours away from each of the major camps I attended this summer alone. One camp I had to fly to get there as it was out east and if you start sending people like me home, I cannot just change my flight days or hours because I was not good enough. Then many of the BIG Consortium camps have schools from the North and South Dakota, to New Jersey and Connecticut while holding it in Chicago and Indianapolis and they are not sending people home that might be from those states I just mentioned where schools are located.

Maybe you need to start attending these camps, then come back and tell us what happens. I bet sending people home is not something you will ever realistically see. Heck there is going to be a lot you will see that we are telling you, but again you keep telling us what you know and have never done basic things that people here have done in these areas of training.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Earlier in this thread, a user remarked that camp directors do not care about NCAA rules "Supervisors don't care about rules differences" were the words used.

Those two statements are not the same thing.

And, most camps are in conjunction with some players "tournament" or "summer league" or something, and it's the TD who sets the rules.

Further, the issue you mentioned about "stopping the clock" has to do with mechanics, not with rules. And, yes, clinicians do care about the specific mechanics being used (to the extent feasible given the camp setting).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Earlier in this thread, a user remarked that camp directors do not care about NCAA rules "Supervisors don't care about rules differences" were the words used. To my understanding, camps for evaluating and hiring college officials were as likely to use HS as college rules, and this is surprising when the specific purpose of those camps is to evaluate college officials. ....

It is only surprising because you are refusing to absorb what you are being told. You are applying your own criteria to what a supervisor is looking for. Your POV does not jibe with what really goes on. Playing rules for camps are determined by the level of competition, not by what NCAA conference is conducting an officiating clinic.

Physical appearance, hustle, play-calling. Takes a supervisor about 5 minutes to see those things and determine if he/she wants to look at you some more.

I just attended a D1/D2 try-out/staff camp a few weeks ago. The supervisor is an NCAA rules EXPERT. He had no idea what the rules for our games were and did not care.

There are plenty of officials in this forum who have worked or are still working different levels of college basketball and have attended plenty of college camps. What we are telling you about camps is not "what we heard", but what we have experienced.

And as Bob just posted, there is a difference between mechanics and rules. No matter what the rules are, we are expected to incorporate NCAA mechanics as much as possible and feasible.

[SC Official]

As mentioned (and ignored) many times, college assigners care about play-calling, not how well you can recite the rules and do on a test. Play-calling is by its very nature philosophical; the rules are a guide but they aren't going to tell you everything you need to know about getting plays right, and they certainly won't tell you what an assigner's preferences are for how certain plays are officiated. And quite honestly, basketball is not a sport where one's play-calling should change significantly between high school and college rules. There are only like ~30 rule differences in basketball and most only matter when the ball is dead; it's not like football where there's a rule difference to think about on almost every play.

But, if you want to keep using your own criteria to decide what supervisors care about without absorbing what experienced officials tell you, be my guest.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

.....

How was your latest camp? What feedback did you receive?

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Those two statements are not the same thing.

And, most camps are in conjunction with some players "tournament" or "summer league" or something, and it's the TD who sets the rules.

Further, the issue you mentioned about "stopping the clock" has to do with mechanics, not with rules. And, yes, clinicians do care about the specific mechanics being used (to the extent feasible given the camp setting).

Translation: HS camp = HS mechanics, men's college camp (JUCO, NAIA, NCAA) = CCA men's mechanics, women's college camp = CCA women's mechanics, G-League camp = NBA mechanics (and rules)?

At a Proactive Referee or similar high-level teaching camp for multiple levels, use whatever mechanics I am most familiar with?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Translation: HS camp = HS mechanics, men's college camp (JUCO, NAIA, NCAA) = CCA men's mechanics, women's college camp = CCA women's mechanics, G-League camp = NBA mechanics (and rules)?

At a Proactive Referee or similar high-level teaching camp for multiple levels, use whatever mechanics I am most familiar with?

I don't know what "Proactive Referee" is, but use the mechanics the camp director says to use. Absent that, use the mechanics your partners agree to use.

[ilyazhito]

Here is a post from another thread with feedback from the MBOA camp that I attended in June. I'll give you the feedback that Que'z and the other observers give me from Level One as soon as I can.

This is the website of Proactive Referee Camp, a high-level teaching camp in the Philadelphia area staffed by multiple NBA and NCAA officials, including Mark Lindsay (director), Duke Callahan, Ed Malloy, Rob Rorke (also Court Club Elite), Joe Lindsay. Other current observers/former supervisors include Al Battista, Ed T. Rush (Court Club Elite founder), and Dave Libbey. This is the camp that shows up first on the NBRA website on the training camps page.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

...

This is the website of Proactive Referee Camp, a high-level teaching camp in the Philadelphia area staffed by multiple NBA and NCAA officials, including Mark Lindsay (director), Duke Callahan, Ed Malloy, Rob Rorke (also Court Club Elite), Joe Lindsay. Other current observers/former supervisors include Al Battista, Ed T. Rush (Court Club Elite founder), and Dave Libbey. This is the camp that shows up first on the NBRA website on the training camps page.

Based on whose camp it is, they do not care one bit what mechanics your are using. They are going to critique you on 3 things mainly: positioning; athleticism/hustle; play-calling.

I've been to camp a few times where Mark has watched me work and broken down my video.

[ilyazhito]

OK. I think I understand. In teaching camps that are not level-specific, just use whatever mechanics my crew agrees on. Otherwise, use whatever mechanics are expected if and when I would be hired to whatever conference/league the camp hires for.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

OK. I think I understand. In teaching camps that are not level-specific, just use whatever mechanics my crew agrees on. Otherwise, use whatever mechanics are expected if and when I would be hired to whatever conference/league the camp hires for.

How did Level One camp go and what was the feedback you received?

[ilyazhito]

It went well. I was a lot more comfortable working 3-person this time than I was the first time. I got feedback about calling my primary area (I have to work on it every time that I step onto the court in a 3-person game), staying relaxed, and using short, choppy strides when coming up the court. BTW, what is the purpose of running with short strides in basketball? Is it easier to stop and change direction with short strides?

P.S. I asked Que'z about chances to get practice doing 3-man, and he said that he could assign me to work tournaments in 3-person crews, and that he could give me charter school varsity games in DC in the winter. He assigns games for the SEED school and some other charter schools.