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-   -   Camp Reviews/Info? Sticky? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103795-camp-reviews-info-sticky.html)

sdoebler Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:06am

Camp Reviews/Info? Sticky?
 
As this is such a valuable source of officiating information I was wondering if there was any use/want in providing more in depth information about camps available. There is obviously a plethora of camps available throughout the summer catered toward different levels.

From a glance there is this resource providing a broad overview of what is available where: https://phillyref.com/basketball/bas...ereecamps.html
I don't know the complete accuracy of this information but for the few that I have attended or am going to it seemed mostly accurate.

What I am really searching for is a more in depth review of what happens at the camp, registration requirements, who is there, what level, how many games per day, and is it a tryout of any sort. Every camp has there baseline advertisement of:
1. Work High Level Games
2. Immediate feedback from the best clinicians
3. Classroom sessions
4. Video review
5. Blah Blah Blah

There have been numerous occasions in our area where newer officials were told to go to camp. These individuals received countless email promotions and picked some based on the fancy wording. They showed up and the camp was a D1 or D2 tryout camps in which they received little to no feedback to help them improve. Is there some blame on the registrant for not understanding what they were getting into? Probably, but I think the situations should be much more clear then they are in the emails/brochure.

I attend local camps yearly and try to do at least one new out of state camp per year. It is difficult to really know what you are getting into with a camp you have never been to without speaking to someone who has actually been there. In the end we are searching for the best ways to improve and want to be in the best place to excel.

I'd be more then happy to start the review process if people would find it useful, interested to hear thoughts though.

(I did search the forum and didn't find much of this that already exists.)

Raymond Mon Apr 30, 2018 01:24pm

I'm attending 3 camps this off-season. Two of them are pretty much staff camps. The other one I'm attending is a D1 mid-major try-out camp, but I'm attending b/c the supervisor just acquired a lower level conference I belong to and I want a chance to get in front of him and earn some games on my own merit.

If anyone posts anything about camps with which I am familiar, I will chime in.

HokiePaul Mon Apr 30, 2018 02:18pm

D3 Super Camp Basketball Officials Referee Referees Official

I attended this camp at University of Richmond couple summers ago. I found it to be a good skills development camp and would be a good first camp for someone who has some 3-person experience.

I thought it was well organized - a good balance of classroom discussion/feedback and games. They taught a very specific style/philosophy on positioning that they wanted used in the conferences they assign. I found the philosophy interesting personally but it may not translate to what your HS assignors want.

There was a bit too much of a good ol' boy club feel for me personally -- a lot of the officials there were repeat campers hoping to get noticed by the camp directors. I got the impression that attending multiple years was pretty much expected if you wanted to be part of the club.

sdoebler Mon Apr 30, 2018 03:15pm

I am attending 3 camps this summer.

1. ECOA in portland. I have never been but a friend of mine went to this camp in Seattle last year and said that it was very good so we are going together in Portland coming up Memorial day weekend.

2. Verne Harris Denver camp. This is what I would call an unofficial tryout camp for a D2 conference that he assigns. This is local and I have heard good positive experiences from other who have attended.

3. Dave Hall Camp. Dave Hall has a variety of camps. He assigns a Juco league in which most of the teams are in or around Utah. He also hosts a D1 womens tryout camp for mountain west. I have never been to the tryout camp but have been working games when it is going on and this from what I have seen is a tryout camp there is little to no instruction. Been to the other instructional camps for many years. You work a lot of games throughout the three days and get feedback from a variety of people working D1 mostly WCC, Mountain west, and Pac-12.

sdoebler Mon Apr 30, 2018 03:23pm

Been interested in possibly going to these camps but don't know much about them if anyone else has been:

Kansas Basketball Officials Camps
Southern Arizona Officials Camps

Additionally would consider going out to Texas in a future year but not really sure what the best offerings in that large state would be.

Raymond Mon Apr 30, 2018 03:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 1021176)
D3 Super Camp Basketball Officials Referee Referees Official

I attended this camp at University of Richmond couple summers ago. I found it to be a good skills development camp and would be a good first camp for someone who has some 3-person experience.

I thought it was well organized - a good balance of classroom discussion/feedback and games. They taught a very specific style/philosophy on positioning that they wanted used in the conferences they assign. I found the philosophy interesting personally but it may not translate to what your HS assignors want.

There was a bit too much of a good ol' boy club feel for me personally -- a lot of the officials there were repeat campers hoping to get noticed by the camp directors. I got the impression that attending multiple years was pretty much expected if you wanted to be part of the club.

I've observed at that camp every year for the last 4-5 years, one day out of the weekend. I attended in 2004, way before I was ready for NCAA ball and came out kind of feeling the same way as you described above. I think that is a function of not being known or familiar with clinicians/supervisors. Attended again in 2008 and got picked up by both conferences. As I've progressed through the years, I've learned that this is a tight-knit group. These 2 supervisors are easily the closest to their staffs out of any of the college supervisors I have worked for.

I won't pretend to know what goes through the supervisors' minds in making hires, but every year 5-7 new guys get hired. It is expected that you pick up on the floor positioning that is taught, especially in the C and Trail. I am a big advocate of the floor mechanics that are taught. My own video review shows that my missed calls overwhelmingly occur as a result of a lack of discipline in adhering to these mechanics.

Raymond Mon Apr 30, 2018 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdoebler (Post 1021179)
Been interested in possibly going to these camps but don't know much about them if anyone else has been:

Kansas Basketball Officials Camps
Southern Arizona Officials Camps

Additionally would consider going out to Texas in a future year but not really sure what the best offerings in that large state would be.

If you are going to travel long distances for teaching camps, I suggest going to camps run by or associated with NBA officials. Joey Crawford/Mike Callahan's Next Level Camp at Villanova is OUTSTANDING for the amount of instruction you get in a short period of time. A film session with any of these guys (Ed Malloy, Zach Zarba, Mark Lindsey, Mark Wunderlich, etc) is worth the fee by itself.

Player989random Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:38pm

Curtis Shaw Camp's (COG):
The staff is nice and you can learn a lot if that's what you're into. But it's clearly a tryout camp. For the cost you do get room and dinner, which is a hell of a lot more than what other D1 camps give you. You work 6-8 games in 3 days, so good luck here.

Mike Kitts Camp:
Arguably the most honest tryout camp I've attended. There is no meeting, no teaching, you work 4-5 games over 2 days and leave. Maybe you talk to Kitts, maybe you don't.

D3 Camp:
Concur with Raymond. At least you get food and housing. All meals. I like it.

CBOO Camps (Ebersole)
Tryout camp. Some teaching, but it's a tryout camp. The 3-day JUCO tryout? 6-9 games. The 2-day D2/D3 tryout? 4-6 games. Not exactly quality games. Get your own food/housing.

EP Sports Tryout (Eppley)
Tryout camp. 2-days, 4-6 games. Get your own food and housing. Better quality ball.

Mid-Atlantic Officiating (Sean Hull) Camp
To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't attend it again. It might have changed (hell it likely has) since I last went in 2015. The clinicians didn't really give me a lot of feedback. In fact, of the 5 tapes I got, only 1 of them contained a game I worked.

My biggest gripe was the damn assistant coach who came into the morning meeting and point-blank asked us to not foul out top prospects. I'll give the clinicians credit, they didn't seem to know that was going to happen, but it was the strangest thing I'd seen at a morning meeting.

Worldwide Officiating (Derrick Stafford Camp)
I'm not going back to this one. I signed up to work some Semi-Pro ball, as was advertised in their flyer. Instead I ended up officiating some little kids (they had a Junior bracket and I officiated U12 games) for free. If I wanted that crap I could've stayed home and at least gotten paid for it.

Plus I reffed some 4-man crews, which was cool, but completely worthless in terms of development. I'm not going to the G-League. When would I ever use 4-person? Waste of cash...except for the tape review. Like Raymond said, if you can get an NBA guy to break down your tape, do it. They go over so much in 30 seconds, you're amazed at how they can see it all.

Man, I gotta go to less camps.

Lcubed48 Tue May 01, 2018 07:26am

D3 Camp
 
I agree with Raymond in that the 2 supervisors are close with their staffs. It gives the camp a friendly, family feel. They are very dedicated to the teaching aspect of officiating, but it is also a tryout camp. I'll never get picked up by either conference, but I attend every year that I can. I use it for professional development networking. It's close to home, and it gives good return on your dollar. It's a good fit for me, and that's all I'm looking for in the world of BB camps. It does indeed make for an excellent first camp.

PS - You also get to work with some greats, i.e. - the one formerly known as BNR & APG.

Valley Man Tue May 01, 2018 08:32am

How about the Mountain East Conference Camp (Mike Eades) at WVU??

SC Official Wed May 02, 2018 06:39am

Joe Forte Camp in Suwannee, GA:

Joe has one D2 and one D1 conference. It’s been a few years, but to me it was a ripoff. First of all it’s expensive and there’s no food or lodging included ($500 I think was what I paid for just the camp). There are a ton of campers (over 100) and not a commensurate number of courts so you don’t get enough games. I did a game with no clinicians on my court. If Joe likes you, you’re going to get asked to go to a second camp later that summer and pay more money, and you still might not get picked up, so you come back next summer and pay for two more camps again.

That being said, I know some people who have had a great experience at this camp and work lots of games for Joe, so take my criticism for what it’s worth. But to me, this camp epitomizes the racket of the college camp system.

Raymond Wed May 02, 2018 07:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1021224)
Joe Forte Camp in Suwannee, GA:

Joe has one D2 and one D1 conference. Itís been a few years, but to me it was a ripoff. First of all itís expensive and thereís no food or lodging included ($500 I think was what I paid for just the camp). There are a ton of campers (over 100) and not a commensurate number of courts so you donít get enough games. I did a game with no clinicians on my court. If Joe likes you, youíre going to get asked to go to a second camp later that summer and pay more money, and you still might not get picked up, so you come back next summer and pay for two more camps again.

That being said, I know some people who have had a great experience at this camp and work lots of games for Joe, so take my criticism for what itís worth. But to me, this camp epitomizes the racket of the college camp system.

Forte used to run his camps for around $250-300. He either likes you or he doesn't. I know I'm not his cup of tea, so I don't waste my time or money.

He has a poor reputation for accounting/bookkeeping, but when he hires you he works you right away.

SC Official Wed May 02, 2018 07:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1021225)
Forte used to run his camps for around $250-300. He either likes you or he doesn't. I know I'm not his cup of tea, so I don't waste my time or money.

Interesting. Was this before he had the Big South? $495 this year per guys I know going.

Also, he and another assigner with a D2 and a D1 league in the same geographic area despise each other, so I don’t think there are many officials who work for both of them. But, I’ve gotten out of that nonsense and maybe things have changed.

Raymond Wed May 02, 2018 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1021228)
Interesting. Was this before he had the Big South? $495 this year per guys I know going.

Also, he and another assigner with a D2 and a D1 league in the same geographic area despise each other, so I donít think there are many officials who work for both of them. But, Iíve gotten out of that nonsense and maybe things have changed.

I went to a Forte camp a while back that was only $275; still with the same caveat of being invited back to a later camp if you caught his interest.

That other supervisor must be Mike Wood. I not sure many folks are big fans of him, from what I have heard.

I remember when the Bob Gibbons tournament (Ral-Dur-CH) was a free camp where campers were only responsible for their hotel rooms and getting to their games on time. I went there twice. Both years I worked with an official who got picked up by the NBA the following season (Eric Lewis/David Guthrie).

SC Official Wed May 02, 2018 10:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1021234)
That other supervisor must be Mike Wood. I not sure many folks are big fans of him, from what I have heard.

It is. Yeah, he pisses a lot of people off but he takes care of you if youíre one of his ďguys.Ē

Why he and Joe donít get along is not something I have an idea of. Most college officials I interact with work for one or the other, from what I hear.


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