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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 02, 2018, 10:23am
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
It is. Yeah, he pisses a lot of people off but he takes care of you if you’re one of his “guys.”

Why he and Joe don’t get along is not something I have an idea of. Most college officials I interact with work for one or the other, from what I hear.
It's a product of their super-sized, unchecked egos. There shouldn't be a problem. Tell your officials to close out dates, assign them their games, then farm out the games to other folks on your staff when you receive turn backs.

I know the Southern pays a lot more than the Big South.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 02, 2018, 05:14pm
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While on the Mike Wood topic, I’ll share what I know about some of the other camps in my area (I haven’t been to all of these personally so take it however you want)...

Mike Wood: Peach Belt (D2), Southern (D1)

Don’t plan on getting hired your first time. Mike is famous for not hiring first-time campers and being pretty outspoken about it. Think he normally does his camp at USC (Columbia) team camp.

Rick Ridenhour: South Atlantic (D2)

Held at NC State every year, normally the same weekend as D3 Super Camp. Good price and includes meals and dorm rooms, good feedback and clinicians, I think there’s a video court. Good learning camp even if you don’t get hired.

I hear that Rick no longer has any of the junior colleges in Region X. See below.

Barry Fishman: NJCAA Region X (JUCO)

Word is he picked up the entire conference which he used to share with Ridenhour. Camp is early May; this year it’s May 11-13 in Myrtle Beach (I looked it up). All D1 clinicians, great learning camp especially for a first-time college camper. He won’t hesitate to pick up a young official. No food or lodging.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 02, 2018, 05:50pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post

Barry Fishman: NJCAA Region X (JUCO)

Word is he picked up the entire conference which he used to share with Ridenhour. Camp is early May; this year it’s May 11-13 in Myrtle Beach (I looked it up). All D1 clinicians, great learning camp especially for a first-time college camper. He won’t hesitate to pick up a young official. No food or lodging.
More info on Barry's camp here: https://www.reftown.com/camps.asp?RID=44
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 02, 2018, 08:55pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post

Barry Fishman: NJCAA Region X (JUCO)

Word is he picked up the entire conference which he used to share with Ridenhour. Camp is early May; this year it’s May 11-13 in Myrtle Beach (I looked it up). All D1 clinicians, great learning camp especially for a first-time college camper. He won’t hesitate to pick up a young official. No food or lodging.
Fishman will be hiring a lot of officials. There are many of Ridenhour's old staff who are not willing to go to camp to stay on a JuCo roster.


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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 02, 2018, 09:30pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Fishman will be hiring a lot of officials. There are many of Ridenhour's old staff who are not willing to go to camp to stay on a JuCo roster.
Yep. And a lot of Ridenhour guys who want to work for Fishman probably won’t out of fear of losing SAC games.

I worked for Fishman and Ridenhour at one point. Without detailing why I got out of college ball (there are lots of reasons), Barry's not one to hire guys who think they're too good to go to his camp at least once, no matter what level they work. Right or wrong, that's just the way he and a lot of other assigners operate.

Barry has a great reputation for giving guys their first opportunity and taking his job seriously, but also a reputation for being, quite bluntly, an egomaniac. But he's not alone in that category in this geographic area. If you want to work entry level college ball in the Carolinas (and a few Virginia schools I think), he'll give you that opportunity if you're capable.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, these are all men's camps I've written about.

Last edited by SC Official; Wed May 02, 2018 at 09:48pm.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 02, 2018, 10:10pm
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What camps are relevant to college ball in the DMV? I'll probably not be going to a college specific camp until I have some varsity experience, but I'm curious as to what camps CBOA and other associations covering the Mid-Atlantic use to scout officials.

I've also heard that camps run by NBA officials are good for teaching, such as the Nunn Better Refs camps, the camp in Villanova (don't know its name), etc. Any camps run by NBA officials close to the DMV?

I've also heard that the process to get to the NBA is through the G-League, and that I would need to get picked up from the G-League camp to work in the G-League (not an easy process, but possible if I have enough 3-man game experience, show good judgement, and demonstrate good game management skills). Are there any camps that officials use to prepare themselves to work the G-League camp? I'd like to know, so that I would spend my time and money on something relevant.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 06:17am
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Yep. And a lot of Ridenhour guys who want to work for Fishman probably won’t out of fear of losing SAC games.

I worked for Fishman and Ridenhour at one point. Without detailing why I got out of college ball (there are lots of reasons), Barry's not one to hire guys who think they're too good to go to his camp at least once, no matter what level they work...
Or officials who already have to attend D1/D2/D3 staff camps don't want to pay $225 (plus $300-400 in hotel costs) so that Barry Fishman can ensure his games are covered (his brochure's own words)

And at what point is an on-staff official good enough not to have to attend a JuCo camp to be retained? Jamie Luckie? Doug Sirmons? AJ Desai? Big South tournament official? D2/D3 Final Four official? There has to be a balance of bringing in fresh faces while retaining some veteran continuity. He's going to have problems covering games in VA. NC officials are not going to like having to travel to Norfolk or Petersburg in the middle of the week on a regular basis.

This is not a criticism of Barry Fishman specifically, but of the entire college camp landscape. The college camp system is more about getting bodies to cover games (for which the supervisor is getting paid by the tournament director) than it is about seeing officials so supervisors know whether or not you are going to hire them. Campers are paying to "cover games". Campers should never pay more than $50-100/camp, strictly to cover administrative costs. All fees charged above that amount are what make the college camp system a racket.
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu May 03, 2018 at 07:29am.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 06:20am
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
What camps are relevant to college ball in the DMV? I'll probably not be going to a college specific camp until I have some varsity experience, but I'm curious as to what camps CBOA and other associations covering the Mid-Atlantic use to scout officials.

I've also heard that camps run by NBA officials are good for teaching, such as the Nunn Better Refs camps, the camp in Villanova (don't know its name), etc. Any camps run by NBA officials close to the DMV?

I've also heard that the process to get to the NBA is through the G-League, and that I would need to get picked up from the G-League camp to work in the G-League (not an easy process, but possible if I have enough 3-man game experience, show good judgement, and demonstrate good game management skills). Are there any camps that officials use to prepare themselves to work the G-League camp? I'd like to know, so that I would spend my time and money on something relevant.
Many of your questions have already been answered in this thread.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 08:45am
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OK. I understand about the Villanova camp (Next Level), and that some DMV camps may not really be good. However, are there any camps that officials specifically use to prepare themselves to go to the G-League tryout camp? AFAIK, the G-League camp uses NBA rules and mechanics, and you have to learn those rules and mechanics somewhere. However, most of the camps mentioned in this thread are tailored to high school and (aspiring) college officials. Are there any specifically dedicated to teaching professional rules and mechanics?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 09:13am
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
OK. I understand about the Villanova camp (Next Level), and that some DMV camps may not really be good. However, are there any camps that officials specifically use to prepare themselves to go to the G-League tryout camp? AFAIK, the G-League camp uses NBA rules and mechanics, and you have to learn those rules and mechanics somewhere. However, most of the camps mentioned in this thread are tailored to high school and (aspiring) college officials. Are there any specifically dedicated to teaching professional rules and mechanics?
No. You are expected to have some familiarity on your own. The NBA rule book is available online. You are expected to be #1, ATHLETIC!!!. You are also expected to looked somewhat polished. Watch some G-League video and pay attention to the signals, mechanics, and movements of those officials. Get in front of a mirror and work on smoothing out your signals and presentation.

There is no pro basketball officiating starter kit.

Also, right now you are all over the place. You just need to get to a good teaching camp and get your fundamentals together. I would highly suggest the Villanova camp. Also, attend at least one of the try-outs camps for Tim Ebersole or Donnie Eppley. Going to a try-out camp will give you an idea of what you need to do to get to that level.

Here's an article you should read: http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.../post_578.html
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu May 03, 2018 at 09:24am.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 09:23am
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Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
Been interested in possibly going to these camps but don't know much about them if anyone else has been:

Kansas Basketball Officials Camps
Southern Arizona Officials Camps

Additionally would consider going out to Texas in a future year but not really sure what the best offerings in that large state would be.
I have been to Southern Arizona Camp and Chris and Bob do a great job of teaching and you get excellent feedback especially if you are just starting out.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 09:45am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Or officials who already have to attend D1/D2/D3 staff camps don't want to pay $225 (plus $300-400 in hotel costs) so that Barry Fishman can ensure his games are covered (his brochure's own words)

And at what point is an on-staff official good enough not to have to attend a JuCo camp to be retained? Jamie Luckie? Doug Sirmons? AJ Desai? Big South tournament official? D2/D3 Final Four official? There has to be a balance of bringing in fresh faces while retaining some veteran continuity. He's going to have problems covering games in VA. NC officials are not going to like having to travel to Norfolk or Petersburg in the middle of the week on a regular basis.

This is not a criticism of Barry Fishman specifically, but of the entire college camp landscape. The college camp system is more about getting bodies to cover games (for which the supervisor is getting paid by the tournament director) than it is about seeing officials so supervisors know whether or not you are going to hire them. Campers are paying to "cover games". Campers should never pay more than $50-100/camp, strictly to cover administrative costs. All fees charged above that amount are what make the college camp system a racket.
Yep.

In this racket, everyone wants a piece of the pie, including JUCO supervisors who pretend like they assign D1 ball. I know the guy who assigns the Georgia NJCAA schools is the same way.

College tryout camps are a money-making endeavor primarily, a means of finding new officials secondarily (or lower). That’s the reality you accept if you want to work college ball.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 10:11am
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I have been to Southern Arizona Camp and Chris and Bob do a great job of teaching and you get excellent feedback especially if you are just starting out.
Thanks, considering making the trip next year
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 10:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Or officials who already have to attend D1/D2/D3 staff camps don't want to pay $225 (plus $300-400 in hotel costs) so that Barry Fishman can ensure his games are covered (his brochure's own words)

And at what point is an on-staff official good enough not to have to attend a JuCo camp to be retained? Jamie Luckie? Doug Sirmons? AJ Desai? Big South tournament official? D2/D3 Final Four official? There has to be a balance of bringing in fresh faces while retaining some veteran continuity. He's going to have problems covering games in VA. NC officials are not going to like having to travel to Norfolk or Petersburg in the middle of the week on a regular basis.

This is not a criticism of Barry Fishman specifically, but of the entire college camp landscape. The college camp system is more about getting bodies to cover games (for which the supervisor is getting paid by the tournament director) than it is about seeing officials so supervisors know whether or not you are going to hire them. Campers are paying to "cover games". Campers should never pay more than $50-100/camp, strictly to cover administrative costs. All fees charged above that amount are what make the college camp system a racket.
Well said. The disappointing thing is that the assignors are (usually) officials, too. They're making tons of money on the backs of their peers. It's greed.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2018, 10:27am
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No. You are expected to have some familiarity on your own. The NBA rule book is available online. You are expected to be #1, ATHLETIC!!!. You are also expected to looked somewhat polished. Watch some G-League video and pay attention to the signals, mechanics, and movements of those officials. Get in front of a mirror and work on smoothing out your signals and presentation.

There is no pro basketball officiating starter kit.

Also, right now you are all over the place. You just need to get to a good teaching camp and get your fundamentals together. I would highly suggest the Villanova camp. Also, attend at least one of the try-outs camps for Tim Ebersole or Donnie Eppley. Going to a try-out camp will give you an idea of what you need to do to get to that level.

Here's an article you should read: Those who want to be quality basketball officials need to work at it say Donnie Eppley and Jim Bruno | PennLive.com
OK. This year, I will be attending the MBOA camp at Annapolis, and Que'z Crawford's Level One Basketball Officials camp in DC, to get more practice with 3-man (I worked sub-varsity and intramural games this past season, and am looking to get varsity games
next season or the following season).

Next year, I'll look into going to the Villanova camp, and either one of Tim Ebersole's camps, or a camp run by Donnie Eppley. I'll also look to work one of the NIRSA tournaments, if an alumnus is allowed to work those.

I'll also be watching G-League video, if I can find any. Maybe there is some YouTube channel with training tapes for G-League officials. Failing that, I'll look through any G-League games, and watch the officials there.
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