Can an NCAA Basketball Official Work Both Sexes?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Is it due to the style of play, or is it due more to expectations of how boys games should be called vs girls games, as JRutledge said? Or is there a different reason?
I'm interested to know, because I don't have a strong preference for either men's or women's basketball yet.

Again who works women's or men's is not always your personal choice. Just like Raymond pointed out, there are people that have done both, but that is not the norm or their choice. Someone has to hire you first of all and if you are hired with one side, the other side will likely not give you a chance in most areas. I started out as a Women's college official and had to give that up when moving to the Men's side. Many small school supervisors are former or current D1 officials and they tend to not allow people to work a gender if they are working the other side, which means they have to hire you.

Also, the biggest hurdle I see in calling women's ball compared to men's ball is the simple fact that above the rim is very prominent on the men's side and it is hardly there on the women's side. The athleticism is different and the speed of the game can be very different. I know many men's officials that still do high school stop doing girl's basketball alone for that reason. The expectations are different even though people here or in our community often do not want to admit that fact.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again who works women's or men's is not always your personal choice. Just like Raymond pointed out, there are people that have done both, but that is not the norm or their choice. Someone has to hire you first of all and if you are hired with one side, the other side will likely not give you a chance in most areas. I started out as a Women's college official and had to give that up when moving to the Men's side. Many small school supervisors are former or current D1 officials and they tend to not allow people to work a gender if they are working the other side, which means they have to hire you.

Also, the biggest hurdle I see in calling women's ball compared to men's ball is the simple fact that above the rim is very prominent on the men's side and it is hardly there on the women's side. The athleticism is different and the speed of the game can be very different. I know many men's officials that still do high school stop doing girl's basketball alone for that reason. The expectations are different even though people here or in our community often do not want to admit that fact.

Peace

The D3 men's officials that work HS for me have been told by their supervisors (not all of them, but more than 1) that they cannot work girls HS hoops.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

The D3 men's officials that work HS for me have been told by their supervisors (not all of them, but more than 1) that they cannot work girls HS hoops.

Insane how low-level college supervisors often like to act like they’re assigning games with 4-figure checks.

That wouldn’t fly in the southeast where working G/B doubleheaders is the norm and not optional in many states (GA, SC, and NC for sure). No low-level college assigner worth his salt would try that without getting backlash.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Insane how low-level college supervisors often like to act like they’re assigning games with 4-figure checks.

That wouldn’t fly in the southeast where working G/B doubleheaders is the norm and not optional in many states (GA, SC, and NC for sure). No low-level college assigner worth his salt would try that without getting backlash.

Well that might be something that is local too. In the conferences I work, we are not explicitely told to stop doing anything like that, but it is understood if you want to continue to work Men's college, you might have to give something up on the back end. And if you don't, then they will find someone else that will. One of my conferences tell guys he does not want them doing a high school game before his college games. Again if you do not comply, he will find someone else.

Rich lives in Wisconsin and I am sure he gets guys that work in the same conferneces that are in my area that have teams in both Wisconsin, Illinois and Indiana. Neither of these states have this doubleheader mess that is in other parts of the country. So it is not quite insane, it is a choice. And again, they have people that will gladly comply with that request and do not like doing girl's basketball at all anyway. It is not a hard decision.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well that might be something that is local too. In the conferences I work, we are not explicitely told to stop doing anything like that, but it is understood if you want to continue to work Men's college, you might have to give something up on the back end. And if you don't, then they will find someone else that will. One of my conferences tell guys he does not want them doing a high school game before his college games. Again if you do not comply, he will find someone else.

Rich lives in Wisconsin and I am sure he gets guys that work in the same conferneces that are in my area that have teams in both Wisconsin, Illinois and Indiana. Neither of these states have this doubleheader mess that is in other parts of the country. So it is not quite insane, it is a choice. And again, they have people that will gladly comply with that request and do not like doing girl's basketball at all anyway. It is not a hard decision.

My "insane" comment was more of just a general reference to JUCO/NAIA/D-3 assigners thinking way more highly of themselves and their sub-$200 games than they ought to.

I agree with you that there will always be officials willing to do whatever it takes to get "prestigious" games. Most college assigners don't need every official on their roster. But if a sub-D2 assigner down here tried that "you can't work high school" nonsense down here, it just wouldn't fly. If you're not working anything above D-3 basketball, to me it wouldn't be worth it to give up high school ball (which would mean giving up girls and boys down here) to drive significantly further for empty gyms and not a ton of money, and I bet a lot of sub-D2 officials I know would feel the same way.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

My "insane" comment was more of just a general reference to JUCO/NAIA/D-3 assigners thinking way more highly of themselves and their sub-$200 games than they ought to.

I agree with you that there will always be officials willing to do whatever it takes to get "prestigious" games. Most college assigners don't need every official on their roster. But if a sub-D2 assigner down here tried that "you can't work high school" nonsense down here, it just wouldn't fly. If you're not working anything above D-3 basketball, to me it wouldn't be worth it to give up high school ball (which would mean giving up girls and boys down here) to drive significantly further for empty gyms and not a ton of money, and I bet a lot of sub-D2 officials I know would feel the same way.

The comment was about girl's basketball only. I know many officials that see the tea-leaves and they give up things based on their personal lives and personal goals. In the three states I mentioned, there is a lot of competition to work D3 and D2, let alone NAIA and JUCO. Officials have to figure out how to manage all those schedules. And even boy's high school can go if the person is in the right situation. And in this area, not all games are incredibly far away either. More schools and more opportunities to work college ball. But also a one-game check in college is significantly bigger than any high school check and you might travel farther in some cases.

Again it is at the end it is about your personal goals. Not everyone is trying to be a State Final official. There was an official that just worked the 4A State Finals in my state that said he was not taking any more high school playoffs because of the college opportunities that he has had to turn down to work the State Playoffs. And maybe when you take away choices of people, you eliminate who officiates at the high school level.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well that might be something that is local too. In the conferences I work, we are not explicitely told to stop doing anything like that, but it is understood if you want to continue to work Men's college, you might have to give something up on the back end. And if you don't, then they will find someone else that will. One of my conferences tell guys he does not want them doing a high school game before his college games. Again if you do not comply, he will find someone else.



Rich lives in Wisconsin and I am sure he gets guys that work in the same conferneces that are in my area that have teams in both Wisconsin, Illinois and Indiana. Neither of these states have this doubleheader mess that is in other parts of the country. So it is not quite insane, it is a choice. And again, they have people that will gladly comply with that request and do not like doing girl's basketball at all anyway. It is not a hard decision.



Peace

Some of tnose officials get assignments from me, and some don't.

I get why they can't do girls games, but a lot of officials would prefer doing more boys games. With a few exceptions, you either work both for me or neither.


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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Some of tnose officials get assignments from me, and some don't.

I get why they can't do girls games, but a lot of officials would prefer doing more boys games. With a few exceptions, you either work both for me or neither.

When you are an independent contractor, we all have a choice. This does not pay me enough (with the headache) to be told what I am going to leave my house to do. Maybe if we gave officials choices, they might be more of us around. But one of the reasons I think we lose officials is because we act like they have to decide what they should do. And I am talking about the high school level. Someone doing college has made several choices in that process.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When you are an independent contractor, we all have a choice. This does not pay me enough (with the headache) to be told what I am going to leave my house to do. Maybe if we gave officials choices, they might be more of us around. But one of the reasons I think we lose officials is because we act like they have to decide what they should do. And I am talking about the high school level. Someone doing college has made several choices in that process.



Peace

Perhaps if I had a shortage at the varsity level....but in hoops right now I don't.

But as an official I work both and then get 60% girls games from some assigners cause other assigners cater to people with requests for one gender only, mostly boys. So I try not to do a lot of this where I can avoid it.


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