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  #61 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2018, 04:51pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am not saying so much you, but the places that are doing these doubleheaders probably are having those issues. I know just trying to get to a game earlier in the day with work and other family obligations it is hard enough to do one game, but two?

And again, people are going to ultimately make choices of things they wish to do. Yes maybe not a problem at the varsity level and we do not have a shortage in this area either right now. It might be a problem down the road if you tell people what they have to do to work for what we get paid at the high school level. I think we focus so much on why officials would not work high school games because of sportsmanship or pay, but this to me also annoys officials as they have other obligations. I am personally exhausted working more than 4 days a week during the season and certainly do not like it when I have to work things I choose to not want to do.

Peace
I have had some crews burn bridges by telling me they will only do boys and then getting angry when I say that I might not have anything for them then. Others have earned that, but when people working 4-5 years try to tell me that's what they're doing, I wish them luck.

My point was and is this -- just cause someone's an IC and wants to line up their schedule a certain way doesn't mean I'm obligated to fulfill those desires.

We're a small school conference and some people avoid us for that reason -- then again, we pay more than just about every conference in the area and I have no shortage of people who want to work varsity contests.

Desire to work for us will usually trump ability if the better official is high maintenance.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2018, 05:00pm
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Fines ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I know I can say no to any potential assignment.
If we do not accept any high school assignment on a day/time that we have not closed off on Arbiter, it's a $15.00 fine.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2018, 05:36pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
In our state we have a strong independent contractor law that has gone after associations for trying to play this game. I am not suggesting that people sue to get a certain right, but if you just quit, then that does not help anyone either. So yes we are independent contractors on my end, because I know I can say no to any potential assignment. But then again no one is telling me what kind of games I can or cannot work here. It is truely a choice.

Peace
Does the law come down on assigners (high school or college) who tell their officials "you can't work for so-and-so" or "you can't work girls basketball" or "you can't work high school"? Doubtful.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2018, 05:38pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If we do not accept any high school assignment on a day/time that we have not closed off on Arbiter, it's a $15.00 fine.


Welcome to the joy of a closed system.


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  #65 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2018, 08:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Does the law come down on assigners (high school or college) who tell their officials "you can't work for so-and-so" or "you can't work girls basketball" or "you can't work high school"? Doubtful.
You remember the person that told you that is not from my state and it is not a high school situation that is a college one. And they did not say "You can't work high school...." according to Rich, they said, "You cannot work girls games." That is a difference on some level to me. College staffs are much smaller than and there are many people trying to get in, so if you are unwilling to do things that supervisor wants, they will get someone else. College staffs are much more selective based on many things. And there is not a shortage for college officials to cover games.

I have interviewed recently for positions after a move in my industry and there are companies that say "You cannot do....anymore" and they are not a W2 job. So there are demands they can make, but some are not reasonable. And since no one is getting rich off of working high school games, I can assume that this is one of the things that would get in the way of keeping people if they complain about things like "politics."



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  #66 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2018, 09:32pm
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Originally Posted by Matt S. View Post
Not sure what your definition of 'better' is.

One thing to bear in mind is that the caliber of D2/D3 ball will vary greatly based on where you're located. I worked D3 (women's) in New England... there were 8 conferences in my region, and over 50 D3 schools within an hour's drive of my house.

Now, I'm in the Midwest, there are four leagues in which I work...and the caliber of play is generally much stronger. I disagree with the 'bodies on the floor on every play' statement. Sure, the lower-tier schools in a couple of the conferences aren't super talented but it's not like every game is a trainwreck.

The men's games I've watched (because there are doubleheaders on weekends and some weeknights) are typically up and down, lots of possessions, some more successful than others...no clue what it's like to work them - but the coaches are typically much more animated, from what I've seen.

It's a personal preference and I encourage you to find a mentor or two to help you with your journey.
Incorrect Call said: "Unless you are working in majors (and MAYBE some mid-majors), the level of play in women's basketball is just not great. And if you are working DII or below, it's bodies all over the floor every single play, and high pitched screams the entire game after every made basket."

I wanted to clarify if he meant that lower-level men's basketball (JUCO/NAIA/DIII/DII) has a higher level of play (more scoring, more disciplined defensive play, fewer fouls) than comparable women's basketball.

What made you want to choose NCAAW basketball over NCAAM basketball? Is it because you never did IAABO ball in MA (Girls are non-IAABO there, unless I am mistaken), you found mentors that led you into women's collegiate basketball, or is there another reason?
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 04, 2018, 11:28pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You remember the person that told you that is not from my state and it is not a high school situation that is a college one. And they did not say "You can't work high school...." according to Rich, they said, "You cannot work girls games." That is a difference on some level to me. College staffs are much smaller than and there are many people trying to get in, so if you are unwilling to do things that supervisor wants, they will get someone else. College staffs are much more selective based on many things. And there is not a shortage for college officials to cover games.

I have interviewed recently for positions after a move in my industry and there are companies that say "You cannot do....anymore" and they are not a W2 job. So there are demands they can make, but some are not reasonable. And since no one is getting rich off of working high school games, I can assume that this is one of the things that would get in the way of keeping people if they complain about things like "politics."



Peace
Why would a men's college staff at the DIII level insist that its members not work girls high school games, or vice versa? Do the college assigners think that by having their members work girls high school games that these members will want to compete with them and join the women's staff of the same conferences? Do some college assigners insist that their officials work no high school games for the same reason, to reduce competition? Or is there a different reason for these bans?
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 05, 2018, 12:48am
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Why would a men's college staff at the DIII level insist that its members not work girls high school games, or vice versa? Do the college assigners think that by having their members work girls high school games that these members will want to compete with them and join the women's staff of the same conferences? Do some college assigners insist that their officials work no high school games for the same reason, to reduce competition? Or is there a different reason for these bans?
At some point, the college assignors do not want their officials working HS games. It is a matter of perception of the college coaches (perhaps while scouting) happen to see them working a HS game. Some would use that in unproductive ways.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 05, 2018, 09:50am
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I understand. That would make sense at the DI or DII level, where travel is longer and paychecks higher. Camron, do you know this because you work college ball?
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 05, 2018, 11:55am
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I understand. That would make sense at the DI or DII level, where travel is longer and paychecks higher. Camron, do you know this because you work college ball?
I have never heard a D2 or D3 supervisor advise against officiating HS ball. That would be the equivalent of a D1 supervisor telling his guys not to work D3 or JuCo.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 05, 2018, 12:01pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I have never heard a D2 or D3 supervisor advise against officiating HS ball. That would be the equivalent of a D1 supervisor telling his guys not to work D3 or JuCo.
I quit umpiring D3 baseball about 4-5 years ago. One reason for that was that the assigner (who also assigns HS ball) would expect me to just dump HS games at a moment's notice to cover a game for him.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 05, 2018, 12:12pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I have never heard a D2 or D3 supervisor advise against officiating HS ball. That would be the equivalent of a D1 supervisor telling his guys not to work D3 or JuCo.
Despite all the pompousness and greediness that goes on in the college assigning business, I'd say that the majority of D2/D3 supervisors wouldn't pull that crap. Expecting an entry-level official on your staff who's getting <5 games to give up high school ball? That's the definition of unreasonable.

I still stand by my point that too many low-level college assigners like to pretend that they assign the ACC. At least, that's true from people I talk to in my area.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 05, 2018, 12:31pm
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I understand. That would make sense at the DI or DII level, where travel is longer and paychecks higher. Camron, do you know this because you work college ball?
I did, for short time. It was never said to me because I didn't get high enough for it to matter. But I heard it said by those that were working significant college schedules.
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Old Thu Apr 05, 2018, 01:25pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Despite all the pompousness and greediness that goes on in the college assigning business, I'd say that the majority of D2/D3 supervisors wouldn't pull that crap. Expecting an entry-level official on your staff who's getting <5 games to give up high school ball? That's the definition of unreasonable.

I still stand by my point that too many low-level college assigners like to pretend that they assign the ACC. At least, that's true from people I talk to in my area.
I work for 2 HS supervisors. One works D2 and JuCo ball (in conferences w/me) and the other is a fixture on national television, so neither of them have a problem with us dumping games as long as it is for a college game, not just a better HS game.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 05, 2018, 01:31pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I work for 2 HS supervisors. One works D2 and JuCo ball (in conferences w/me) and the other is a fixture on national television, so neither of them have a problem with us dumping games as long as it is for a college game, not just a better HS game.
Same protocol here.....if you get a college game, even same day, you take it and HS adjusts.
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