Can an NCAA Basketball Official Work Both Sexes?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I assume (yes, I know what that means) that the officials, as a group, are calling what the coaches / supervisors want, again, as a group.
....

Actually, in both my HS and college games, I hear chirping from coaches about contact on the ball handlers.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Actually, in both my HS and college games, I hear chirping from coaches about contact on the ball handlers.

I don't work many HS games, in fact I try to work as few as possible, but I agree with the statement. However, I would say in my college games, there are very few complaints when the directives regarding contact on ball handlers are enforced, even strictly enforced. In those games I might get the occasional make sure it is called the same way on the other end nonsense, but no real complaints. In HS games on the other hand, the coaches complain when these fouls are not called, and the same coaches complain when these fouls are called.

[johnny d]

Actually, if I really want to make a HS coach's head explode, I just start calling illegal screens as I would in my college games. Most of the HS coaches have no idea what the screening rules are and they seem to very rarely enforced by many of the officials in my area.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Actually, if I really want to make a HS coach's head explode, I just start calling illegal screens as I would in my college games. Most of the HS coaches have no idea what the screening rules are and they seem to very rarely enforced by many of the officials in my area.

They get over it.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I don't work many HS games, in fact I try to work as few as possible, but I agree with the statement. However, I would say in my college games, there are very few complaints when the directives regarding contact on ball handlers are enforced, even strictly enforced. In those games I might get the occasional make sure it is called the same way on the other end nonsense, but no real complaints. In HS games on the other hand, the coaches complain when these fouls are not called, and the same coaches complain when these fouls are called.

Do you work men's or women's college games? If men's then maybe J.D. (Collins) is emphasizing the automatic fouls as much as June (Courteau) is, and the discussion about "absolutes" may be less relevant than originally thought, at least for your conference.

RE: Illegal screens, I haven't seen too many of those in the (sub-varsity) high school games that I have worked, but I have called them in intramural games, especially as the trail or center official when I was off-ball. Perhaps 3-man mechanics allow better coverage of screens than 2 man, but that's a discussion for another post.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Do you work men's or women's college games? If men's then maybe J.D. (Collins) is emphasizing the automatic fouls as much as June (Courteau) is, and the discussion about "absolutes" may be less relevant than originally thought, at least for your conference.

RE: Illegal screens, I haven't seen too many of those in the (sub-varsity) high school games that I have worked, but I have called them in intramural games, especially as the trail or center official when I was off-ball. Perhaps 3-man mechanics allow better coverage of screens than 2 man, but that's a discussion for another post.

I work NCAA-M. I have absolutely zero interest in any aspect of women's basketball. I am thankful that I live in a state where you can choose to work just boys, just girls, or both, because if I was forced to do both when I was starting as a HS official, I would have quit long before I made it to college basketball.

[ilyazhito]

Is it due to the style of play, or is it due more to expectations of how boys games should be called vs girls games, as JRutledge said? Or is there a different reason?
I'm interested to know, because I don't have a strong preference for either men's or women's basketball yet.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Is it due to the style of play, or is it due more to expectations of how boys games should be called vs girls games, as JRutledge said? Or is there a different
I'm interested to know, because I don't have a strong preference for either men's or women's basketball yet.

Taiqua Stewart, MEAC Women's supervisor, worked Men's ball for a year or two back around the turn of the century. If you ever run into her at camp you should ask her about it. I also believe an official name Felicia Grinter worked some Men's ball in SWAC about 10 years ago.

Also, sometime since Y2K there was an official in the Big Sky conference who worked both sides and maybe worked both conference tournaments.

[IncorrectCall]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Is it due to the style of play, or is it due more to expectations of how boys games should be called vs girls games, as JRutledge said? Or is there a different reason?
I'm interested to know, because I don't have a strong preference for either men's or women's basketball yet.

Unless you are working in majors (and MAYBE some mid-majors), the level of play in women's basketball is just not great. And if you are working DII or below, it's bodies all over the floor every single play, and high pitched screams the entire game after every made basket.

[Referee24.7]

I agree that a certain level of judgment has been taken out of the womens' and now, the mens side had adopted it because of one simple, ridiculous theory that the NCAA feels - and that is, they believe that us calling more fouls on freedom of movement, multiple touches above the FT line extended, will somehow, enhance scoring. . .

I've said this for years and years now, the major fundamental flaw in the rules for college basketball is that they have committees that consist of coaches only who make these rules up. . .that in and of itself, lends to where you see these what the majority of officials determine, are contact that doesn't create any disadvantage at all, to having to be called now. . .

I feel that the rules committees should consist of coaches, but also, former officials or current/former supervisors, and also, athletic directors, so that way, there's more diversity and common sense from all phases of the game being discussed and possibly, implemented. . .

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

Unless you are working in majors (and MAYBE some mid-majors), the level of play in women's basketball is just not great. And if you are working DII or below, it's bodies all over the floor every single play, and high pitched screams the entire game after every made basket.

I began my officiating career with a female friend who advanced in the college ranks well before I did. She was working multiple lower division conferences and one mid-Major HBCU D1 conference and working conference tournaments. She got picked up in another mid-Major that paid more than the HBCU D1 but told me she was bored working those games b/c those games just weren't that good and those was no excitement generated by the fans.


Additionally, she quit working HS ball b/c our commissioner refused to use her in BV games. She was a protégé of Taiqua Stewart (whom I mentioned earlier) and more than capable of working BV games.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

Unless you are working in majors (and MAYBE some mid-majors), the level of play in women's basketball is just not great. And if you are working DII or below, it's bodies all over the floor every single play, and high pitched screams the entire game after every made basket.

So, men's basketball is better at the lower college levels (DII/DIII/NAIA/JUCO)? I'll keep that in mind.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Is it due to the style of play, or is it due more to expectations of how boys games should be called vs girls games, as JRutledge said? Or is there a different reason?
I'm interested to know, because I don't have a strong preference for either men's or women's basketball yet.

Again who works women's or men's is not always your personal choice. Just like Raymond pointed out, there are people that have done both, but that is not the norm or their choice. Someone has to hire you first of all and if you are hired with one side, the other side will likely not give you a chance in most areas. I started out as a Women's college official and had to give that up when moving to the Men's side. Many small school supervisors are former or current D1 officials and they tend to not allow people to work a gender if they are working the other side, which means they have to hire you.

Also, the biggest hurdle I see in calling women's ball compared to men's ball is the simple fact that above the rim is very prominent on the men's side and it is hardly there on the women's side. The athleticism is different and the speed of the game can be very different. I know many men's officials that still do high school stop doing girl's basketball alone for that reason. The expectations are different even though people here or in our community often do not want to admit that fact.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again who works women's or men's is not always your personal choice. Just like Raymond pointed out, there are people that have done both, but that is not the norm or their choice. Someone has to hire you first of all and if you are hired with one side, the other side will likely not give you a chance in most areas. I started out as a Women's college official and had to give that up when moving to the Men's side. Many small school supervisors are former or current D1 officials and they tend to not allow people to work a gender if they are working the other side, which means they have to hire you.

Also, the biggest hurdle I see in calling women's ball compared to men's ball is the simple fact that above the rim is very prominent on the men's side and it is hardly there on the women's side. The athleticism is different and the speed of the game can be very different. I know many men's officials that still do high school stop doing girl's basketball alone for that reason. The expectations are different even though people here or in our community often do not want to admit that fact.

Peace

The D3 men's officials that work HS for me have been told by their supervisors (not all of them, but more than 1) that they cannot work girls HS hoops.