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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 08:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randa16 View Post
In my mind the kid moved toward the defender. I have no problem with him going back a little for impact but he goes up. Just my opinion
I don't think it's that hard of a sell. The screener turned his shoulder into the defender.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 09:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randa16 View Post
Look I like this site and most guys here seem nice. I have no problem having a discussion but not going to be treated like I am beneath someone. I clearly stated after that saying I feel it was an illegal screen and have NO PROBLEM explaining that to a coach but it would be a hard sell since the kid moved.

I did not intend to speak down to you but the veterans in the Forum will tell you that I am the 'bulldog' in the Forum with to respect to the Guarding and Screening Rules. In other words I take it very seriously and will take to task any one who plays fast and loose withe two Rules. And the faster and looser one plays with either of the two Rules the more irritated this 'bald old geezer' gets.

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Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Tue Mar 06, 2018 at 09:11am. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 09:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I did not intend to speak down to you but the veterans in the Forum will tell you that I am the 'bulldog' in the Forum with to respect to the Guarding and Screening Rules. In other words I take it very seriously and will take to task any one who plays fast and loose withe two Rules. And the faster and looser one plays with either of the two Rules the more irritated this 'bald old geezer' gets.

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No worries and not mad. I am here to share but also to learn from the older guys who have more knowledge then me.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 09:15am
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Push on the defense.

Also Randa - if every other veteran, after seeing a video, have the same call and you are the only one that see's things different it would be safe to say that your call and/or logic is wrong. I would say this applies to anything in life.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 09:39am
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I have let plenty of hard screens go when set legally, but I don't think this is legal. The screener can brace or move back to absorb contact, but they can not turn their shoulder into the defender's chest/neck area.

I will say its close and I think reasonable officials could come away with 3 different calls here (illegal screen, no call, or push by defense) based on how they interpret the screening rules.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 09:46am
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Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
I have let plenty of hard screens go when set legally, but I don't think this is legal. The screener can brace or move back to absorb contact, but they can not turn their shoulder into the defender's chest/neck area.

I will say its close and I think reasonable officials could come away with 3 different calls here (illegal screen, no call, or push by defense) based on how they interpret the screening rules.
And in this case the screener moved towards the defender, he didn't lean away.
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Mar 06, 2018 at 02:27pm.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 10:05am
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By rule, the screener may turn or brace for contact, but I'm not sure the screener braces here (even after watching slo mo). IMHO, the screener delivered a blow by turning his shoulder into the defender. So, Illegal screen
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 01:43pm
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Hard to tell from this angle, but it also looks like the screener's legs might be set pretty wide as well. Food for thought.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 02:07pm
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Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers View Post
Hard to tell from this angle, but it also looks like the screener's legs might be set pretty wide as well. Food for thought.
Why would that matter if the contact is not with the legs? If the contact is with the torso, I would not care if the legs are wide. The legs only come into play if there is some leg contact. But you got through a player's chest and you were legal otherwise, not sure we should consider that part of the stance.

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 02:29pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
not sure we should consider that part of the stance.
I am sure. We shouldn't.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 03:05pm
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I had about 30 seconds to watch between classes and didn’t get a great look. From my one look, I thought maybe there was contact by screeners knee. Upon second viewing, that was incorrect. My apologies for inconveniencing Jenkins with my idiotic quick take.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 06:04pm
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there is no rule that says contact with an offensive players shoulder is a foul on the offensive player. all he did was turn to avoid the contact (which was pretty hard IMO). There is no expectation that he stand there and take it like a "man" (or woman).
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 06:50pm
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On bit of a side note....

Generally speaking, there has to be contact for there to be a foul. Given that concept, I think there should be reform that penalizes illegal things that don't have contact, but affect the defense. This is close to being a good example. If someone sets a screen with their feet wider than deemed by the rules, they should be penalized, specifically if it affects the defense. If there is contact, the call is easy. Now, if the defense runs, because of the wide stance, in an adverse pattern to avoid contact, I think the screener should be penalized. I'm thinking violation. Without contact, we have excessive elbow swinging being a violation. Why not a new one for an illegal screen without contact.

Stupid? Genius? Other acts that might be treated similarly?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 07:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
On bit of a side note....

Generally speaking, there has to be contact for there to be a foul. Given that concept, I think there should be reform that penalizes illegal things that don't have contact, but affect the defense. This is close to being a good example. If someone sets a screen with their feet wider than deemed by the rules, they should be penalized, specifically if it affects the defense. If there is contact, the call is easy. Now, if the defense runs, because of the wide stance, in an adverse pattern to avoid contact, I think the screener should be penalized. I'm thinking violation. Without contact, we have excessive elbow swinging being a violation. Why not a new one for an illegal screen without contact.

Stupid? Genius? Other acts that might be treated similarly?
What about a player attempting to block a shot such that the shooter has to adjust to get around it. If not for that, the defender may have very well hit the shooter's arm. Are we calling something on that because the shooter had to adjust and, in the process of doing so, avoiding creating a foul on the defender and missed the shot?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 06, 2018, 07:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
there is no rule that says contact with an offensive players shoulder is a foul on the offensive player. all he did was turn to avoid the contact (which was pretty hard IMO). There is no expectation that he stand there and take it like a "man" (or woman).
You don't avoid contact by turning into the object that is coming at you.

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