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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 10:07am
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RefRich View Post
I agree with the technical but eliminate the "wearing uniform incorrectly." This would help to eliminate inconsistencies in application and also put the onus directly on the shoulders of where it belongs, the coaches.

In PA, the PIAA requires us to ask coaches if their teams are equiped properly according to the NFHS. If they answer yes and they aren't, they should get penalized.
What if they answer "no"? What if the coach doesn't know? What if the question is not asked?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 10:09am
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6. Adding a rule to allow a coach to request a time-out near the end of the game to allow for bench personnel to enter the game – and only for that purpose.

This sounds like a good idea.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 10:22am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
What if they answer "no"? What if the coach doesn't know? What if the question is not asked?


If the coach answers no then you say, they better be before the start of the game or we’ll have a technical to start the game. If the coach doesn’t know it’s his fault.


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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 11:05am
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Based on the results of the football survey, I am just not bothering to complete these from now on. The rules committee just does what it wants anyway.
It does seem to be that way, yes. If sizable majorities of both coaches and officials are in favor of multiple rules changes, and none of them get passed? What's the point?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 11:13am
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Originally Posted by RefRich View Post
If the coach answers no then you say, they better be before the start of the game or we’ll have a technical to start the game. If the coach doesn’t know it’s his fault.


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So the question has absolutely nothing to do with enforcement. The players are either legally equipped or not, and how or if the coach answers the question has no bearing on the punishment.


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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 11:52am
LRZ LRZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
So the question has absolutely nothing to do with enforcement. The players are either legally equipped or not, and how or if the coach answers the question has no bearing on the punishment.
Raymond, you are correct. In PA, we are required to ask the question as part of our mandatory pre-game captains/coaches meeting. The perfunctory answer has always been yes; I've never had a coach say no.

And there is no linkage between an incorrect answer and the ruling when a player is illegally uniformed. The "punishment" is based on the illegality itself, not on the coach's earlier, erroneous reply to the question.
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Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 02:27pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
So the question has absolutely nothing to do with enforcement. The players are either legally equipped or not, and how or if the coach answers the question has no bearing on the punishment.


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No argument with that and I don't believe asking the question is even needed. Ether they are or they aren't and that question will not correct the behavior.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 02:31pm
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Originally Posted by RefRich View Post
No argument with that and I don't believe asking the question is even needed. Ether they are or they aren't and that question will not correct the behavior.
Can't you equate that to checking the book at around 12 minutes to give time to correct any mistakes? Even if you don't check early, just like not asking about the legality of the uniforms, the penalty is the same.

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 02:35pm
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Can't you equate that to checking the book at around 12 minutes to give time to correct any mistakes? Even if you don't check early, just like not asking about the legality of the uniforms, the penalty is the same.

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It would be the equivalent if we were checking the uniforms instead of asking about them. We don't check the book by asking the coach if his roster has been correctly entered into the scorebook and if the starters are marked.
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Feb 13, 2018 at 02:47pm.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 02:37pm
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It would be the equivalent if were checking the uniforms instead of asking about them.
Fine. But the point is the same... It's not a bad idea to be proactive.

Honestly, I personally don't even ask anymore. But I'm not going to come down on those that do or work in places where it's required.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 02:38pm
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No argument with that and I don't believe asking the question is even needed. Ether they are or they aren't and that question will not correct the behavior.
True, if all we're talking about is, say, illegal numbers or something.

But, and this might be more true in other sports (the states / FED aren't going to have the question only for some sports and not for others), if someone is wearing / using something illegal and someone gets hurt by that illegal item, having asked the question can be part of a defense.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 02:53pm
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Fine. But the point is the same... It's not a bad idea to be proactive.

Honestly, I personally don't even ask anymore. But I'm not going to come down on those that do or work in places where it's required.

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I'm coming down on the state, not the officials. We don't know if players are properly equipped until we visually inspect the players. Asking a coach doesn't change or influence the enforcement. And the only technical fouls are for illegal numbers and not wearing white@home/dark@road. So if his team is wearing a bunch of illegal t-shirts the only penalty is they can't participate until they remove the t-shirts.
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Feb 13, 2018 at 03:59pm.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 03:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Asking a coach doesn't change or influence the enforcement.
Unfortunately a lot of officials in my state think that if we don't ask, we can't enforce.

Of course they believe a lot of other things too. Like how referees are 'supposed' to stay opposite the table during the national anthem, lineups, etc. Which the mechanics manual alludes to during the pre-game warmup, but does not specify where officials should stand after the warmup.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 05:01pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
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A curiosity, fwiw: I work two state-certified sports, basketball and soccer, with a mandated pre-game statement that must be read verbatim.

For basketball, that statement includes, in part, this sentence: "Coaches, please certify to the contest officials that your contestants are legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules and PIAA adoptions."

For soccer, that sentence reads, "Coaches, please certify to the officials that your contestants will be legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules and PIAA adoptions at the kickoff."
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 07:41pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
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A curiosity, fwiw: I work two state-certified sports, basketball and soccer, with a mandated pre-game statement that must be read verbatim.

For basketball, that statement includes, in part, this sentence: "Coaches, please certify to the contest officials that your contestants are legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules and PIAA adoptions."

For soccer, that sentence reads, "Coaches, please certify to the officials that your contestants will be legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules and PIAA adoptions at the kickoff."
Do these statements release game officials from any equipment related injury liability?

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