Survey Says ...

[frezer11]

Just a few thoughts...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

About the rules for 2018-19 – Would you favor?

1. Awarding no free throws for common fouls prior to the sixth team foul each quarter.
I think this has worked great in the women's college game.

2. Awarding a technical foul for slapping the backboard even though there is a try attempt.
No. Just opens up an avenue for controversy on legitimate shot block attempts.

4. Using the 3-foot-wide arc under the basket to help clarify block/charge.
If instituted, I can see a lot of issues in application with newer officials, or some officials stuck in their ways. Not that that is a reason to not change a rule, but I don't see this as necessary in HS ball.

14. Clarifying that stitching on the functioning seam of a sleeve may be a different color than the sleeve.
And this year's winner for Dumbest Proposed Rule Change is........
Oh, and this would be a shoe-in for Dumbest Rule Change of the Decade in 2 years as well.

15. Beginning with the sixth team foul each quarter, the opponent shoots two free throws for all subsequent fouls.

16. Resetting the fouls to zero each quarter if the rule eliminating the 1-and-1 is adopted.
For 15 and 16, same justification as #1

19. Permitting coaches to only call a time-out during a dead ball, including after a made basket.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. This is already the worst rule in NCAA Men's, no need to expand it to HS (and younger). Why add a middle man? Other than a trap in a corner and similar situations, virtually all timeouts are strategic and wanted by the HC. Not like you have captains saying, "Hmm... I think we need a break here..."

21. Eliminating the jump ball at the beginning of the game. The visiting team would get first possession and the arrow would be set after legal inbounds.
Disagree. Sorry Billy, I for one enjoy the tradition here. Plus it could be argued that not having it makes a legitimate difference in OT.

23. Charging a direct technical foul to the head coach if players enter the game with illegal equipment (sleeves, tights, headbands, wristbands, undershirts, wearing uniform incorrectly, etc.).
Nope. Especially the part about wearing the uniform incorrectly, you're going to give the HC a Tech for a player not tucking in their jersey? I hope not

25. Including pregame dunking as one of the behaviors that would constitute a warning to the head coach (during pregame warmups, participants are considered to be bench personnel).
I'm actually ok with this, because I think it's one step closer to just allowing this legitimate shot attempt during pregame.

27. Resuming the backcourt 10-second count after the defensive team causes the ball to go out-of-bounds in the backcourt of the offensive team (resets to 10 seconds on fouls, time-outs, defensive violations).
Good thought, and I like its application in college, however, unless they allow the 10 second count to be timed by the game clock (or shot clock if used), then I think this ends up being another rule change thats totally opening itself to problems and controversy. (An official that loses their count by a whistle, the communication of time remaining, etc.)

30. Starting overtime by using the alternating-possession arrow and eliminating the jump ball. Overtime is an “extension of the fourth quarter” in all areas, e.g., direction of play, fouls on each player.
Same as before.

The rest I have no clear opinion one way or another-

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by frezer11

21. Eliminating the jump ball at the beginning of the game. The visiting team would get first possession and the arrow would be set after legal inbounds. Disagree. Sorry Billy, I for one enjoy the tradition here.

Over the past decades, as the number of jump balls has decreased to almost none (compared to several (at three different circles) in games many years ago), officials just don't know the jump ball rules like they use to know them. Most officials (both tossers, and nontossers) just hope for the best, maybe catching a jumper tapping the ball on the way up, or catching the ball before the jump ball ends. Many officials have little understanding of what jumpers and nonjumpers can do before the toss, during the toss, and after the toss. I've heard very otherwise competent officials tell all ten players, "Don't move.", before tossing, and I've heard officials tell players that they can't stand behind an opponent when both are several (more than three feet) away from the circle.

We're only one, or two, jump balls a game from doing away with them all together, let's put the jump ball out of it's misery, it's the only humane thing to do.



Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Hold your spots", said by the referee, or tosser, before the jump ball, is only rule based for some of the players. One exception to this rule, and there are others, is that players on the jump ball circle can move off the jump ball circle at any time: before the toss, during the toss, or after the toss.

"You can't stand behind him”, stated by the referee, or the umpire, before a jump ball, to a player who is directly behind an opponent, both whom are ten feet off the jump ball circle, is not rule based. The rule that players can’t stand behind, within three feet, of an opponent, only applies to players on, and within three feet of, the jump ball circle. Players farther back than that can stand wherever they want, as long as they get to that spot first.

[Multiple Sports]

You have six threads in an 11 post thread......nice job !!!!!

[SC Official]

NCAA-W doesn't start bonus on the sixth foul.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by SC Official

NCAA-W doesn't start bonus on the sixth foul.

Correct, I just meant the concept of double bonus after so many fouls, and resetting them at quarter.

[RefRich]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Just a few thoughts...

23. Charging a direct technical foul to the head coach if players enter the game with illegal equipment (sleeves, tights, headbands, wristbands, undershirts, wearing uniform incorrectly, etc.).
Nope. Especially the part about wearing the uniform incorrectly, you're going to give the HC a Tech for a player not tucking in their jersey? I hope not


The rest I have no clear opinion one way or another-

I agree with the technical but eliminate the "wearing uniform incorrectly." This would help to eliminate inconsistencies in application and also put the onus directly on the shoulders of where it belongs, the coaches.

In PA, the PIAA requires us to ask coaches if their teams are equiped properly according to the NFHS. If they answer yes and they aren't, they should get penalized.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by RefRich

I agree with the technical but eliminate the "wearing uniform incorrectly." This would help to eliminate inconsistencies in application and also put the onus directly on the shoulders of where it belongs, the coaches.

In PA, the PIAA requires us to ask coaches if their teams are equiped properly according to the NFHS. If they answer yes and they aren't, they should get penalized.

Fair enough, and I agree, we'd all stop having to deal with uniform issues in a hurry!

[BryanV21]

I've started the survey and find that I don't care about most of the changes made for last season. Rule changes such as the coaches box being extended and uniform name restrictions were never an issue in the first place (at least around here in central Ohio).

As for proposed rule changes, for the most part they seem unnecessary (the one about changing away teams to white and home teams to a dark color made me say "what" out loud). However, some are ok...

I voted for removing color restrictions on sleeves and such, as I'd love not to be part of the fashion police. Although I did voted "no" on the knotted headbands, as I feel that would introduce follow-up rules about the length of the tied ends and size of the knots.

The one about coaches being able to shorten time outs to 30 seconds was intriguing, but in the end it seems unnecessary.

I do like clarifying that a screen must be in bounds for the screen to be legal.

I also like team members needing to remove warm-up clothing three minutes before game time so we can make sure they're uniform is legal.. Not that I've had this issue, but it would avoid a possible argument with a coach about a starter needing to be replaced so they can change their undershirt or something.

And if overtime is an extension of the 4th quarter, why not use the AP arrow instead of having another jump ball?

It seems that most of these rules changes are introduced just to give somebody at the Fed something to do. You know... to justify them having a job.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I've started the survey and find that I don't care about most of the changes made for last season. Rule changes such as the coaches box being extended ...

I love the extended coaching box. If coaches aren't standing in front of the table blocking the view of the scorekeeper as I report fouls, I can just ignore where they're standing. I've gone all season without ever saying, "Hey coach, can you please stay in the box". Not even once. One less irritant between me and the coaches.

I haven't used the written unsporting warning (I've gone directly to a technical foul) but it's a nice tool to have in my referee tool belt in case I need it, and I know that others in my little corner of Connecticut have used the written warning successfully.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I love the extended coaching box. If coaches aren't standing in front of the table blocking the view of the scorekeeper as I report fouls, I can just ignore where they're standing. I've gone all season without ever saying, "Hey coach, can you please stay in the box". Not even once. One less irritant between me and the coaches.

I haven't used the written unsporting warning (I've gone directly to a technical foul) but it's a nice tool to have in my referee tool belt in case I need it, and I know that others in my little corner of Connecticut have used the written warning successfully.

The coach's box has never been a problem for me. So the size of it has not made any difference.

And I've gone straight to a tech a couple of times, and both times I don't recall a time during the game where a warning was applicable. The coaches in both instances went from 0-60. However, I admit that the warning can be helpful and hopefully I take advantage of that tool.

[rotationslim]

When I read this #19 seemed to be about only allowing timeout to be called from the bench/head coach during a dead ball. However another user posted a reponse that made it seem like it was about WHO calls the TO, not when?

19. Permitting coaches to only call a time-out during a dead ball, including after a made basket.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. This is already the worst rule in NCAA Men's, no need to expand it to HS (and younger). Why add a middle man? Other than a trap in a corner and similar situations, virtually all timeouts are strategic and wanted by the HC. Not like you have captains saying, "Hmm... I think we need a break here..."

FWIW I would love the rule to change to only allow timeouts to be called at a dead ball. I dont think it should be available as a tactic to bail out an offensive player who is trapped. Let them work their way out of it, or turn it over. Letting the coach jump in and save them with (what I consider is) an admistrative move is stupid. Let the players sort it out on the court.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by rotationslim

When I read this #19 seemed to be about only allowing timeout to be called from the bench/head coach during a dead ball. However another user posted a reponse that made it seem like it was about WHO calls the TO, not when?

The proposed rule change would only allow a head coach to call a timeout during a dead ball, and would require a player on the court to request the timeout if the ball is live. I just think that it adds a middle man where it isn't necessary. If you're standing right in front of the HC, and they ask you for a timeout, if this rule is changed, you can't do it, instead he has to call out to a player who has to make the same request to you. Just isn't worth it, especially the lower the level.

[Blindolbat]

Originally Posted by rotationslim

When I read this #19 seemed to be about only allowing timeout to be called from the bench/head coach during a dead ball. However another user posted a reponse that made it seem like it was about WHO calls the TO, not when?

19. Permitting coaches to only call a time-out during a dead ball, including after a made basket.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. This is already the worst rule in NCAA Men's, no need to expand it to HS (and younger). Why add a middle man? Other than a trap in a corner and similar situations, virtually all timeouts are strategic and wanted by the HC. Not like you have captains saying, "Hmm... I think we need a break here..."

FWIW I would love the rule to change to only allow timeouts to be called at a dead ball. I dont think it should be available as a tactic to bail out an offensive player who is trapped. Let them work their way out of it, or turn it over. Letting the coach jump in and save them with (what I consider is) an admistrative move is stupid. Let the players sort it out on the court.

Agreed. Lol- It also would do away with the occasional time out given when a coach calls "five out."

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I love the extended coaching box. If coaches aren't standing in front of the table blocking the view of the scorekeeper as I report fouls, I can just ignore where they're standing. I've gone all season without ever saying, "Hey coach, can you please stay in the box". Not even once. One less irritant between me and the coaches.

To me, this seems to imply that you have coaches coming out of the box past the 28 foot line, which is not the direction the box was extended? If I'm reading that right, then you are still having the same issue as before. I have no issue with the extension of the coaches box, but if coaches were out of their box in the past, it was almost always on the half-court side, not the baseline side, so that rule change didn't make a big difference in games that I saw.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by frezer11

... but if coaches were out of their box in the past, it was almost always on the half-court side, not the baseline side, so that rule change didn't make a big difference in games that I saw.

Our inconsistencies have always been with coaches down on the endline. Some of our officials tolerated it, others didn't. All of us here in my little corner of Connecticut were always on the same page regarding the other direction, if they're near the table, walk them back.

With the new rule, we've cut our problems in half.