Survey Says ...

frezer11

rotationslim wrote
When I read this #19 seemed to be about only allowing timeout to be called from the bench/head coach during a dead ball. However another user posted a reponse that made it seem like it was about WHO calls the TO, not when?

The proposed rule change would only allow a head coach to call a timeout during a dead ball, and would require a player on the court to request the timeout if the ball is live. I just think that it adds a middle man where it isn't necessary. If you're standing right in front of the HC, and they ask you for a timeout, if this rule is changed, you can't do it, instead he has to call out to a player who has to make the same request to you. Just isn't worth it, especially the lower the level.

Blindolbat

rotationslim wrote
When I read this #19 seemed to be about only allowing timeout to be called from the bench/head coach during a dead ball. However another user posted a reponse that made it seem like it was about WHO calls the TO, not when?

19. Permitting coaches to only call a time-out during a dead ball, including after a made basket.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. This is already the worst rule in NCAA Men's, no need to expand it to HS (and younger). Why add a middle man? Other than a trap in a corner and similar situations, virtually all timeouts are strategic and wanted by the HC. Not like you have captains saying, "Hmm... I think we need a break here..."

FWIW I would love the rule to change to only allow timeouts to be called at a dead ball. I dont think it should be available as a tactic to bail out an offensive player who is trapped. Let them work their way out of it, or turn it over. Letting the coach jump in and save them with (what I consider is) an admistrative move is stupid. Let the players sort it out on the court.

Agreed. Lol- It also would do away with the occasional time out given when a coach calls "five out."

BillyMac

frezer11 wrote
... but if coaches were out of their box in the past, it was almost always on the half-court side, not the baseline side, so that rule change didn't make a big difference in games that I saw.

Our inconsistencies have always been with coaches down on the endline. Some of our officials tolerated it, others didn't. All of us here in my little corner of Connecticut were always on the same page regarding the other direction, if they're near the table, walk them back.

With the new rule, we've cut our problems in half.

LRZ

PA just got access to the survey. Too binary, "yes" or "no." Needs a third option, "who cares?"

bob jenkins

LRZ wrote
PA just got access to the survey. Too binary, "yes" or "no." Needs a third option, "who cares?"

Can't you just skip the question?

LRZ

bob jenkins wrote
Can't you just skip the question?

I did--repeatedly.

Rich

Based on the results of the football survey, I am just not bothering to complete these from now on. The rules committee just does what it wants anyway.

Raymond

RefRich wrote
I agree with the technical but eliminate the "wearing uniform incorrectly." This would help to eliminate inconsistencies in application and also put the onus directly on the shoulders of where it belongs, the coaches.

In PA, the PIAA requires us to ask coaches if their teams are equiped properly according to the NFHS. If they answer yes and they aren't, they should get penalized.

What if they answer "no"? What if the coach doesn't know? What if the question is not asked?

Raymond

6. Adding a rule to allow a coach to request a time-out near the end of the game to allow for bench personnel to enter the game – and only for that purpose.

This sounds like a good idea.

RefRich

Raymond wrote
What if they answer "no"? What if the coach doesn't know? What if the question is not asked?

If the coach answers no then you say, they better be before the start of the game or we’ll have a technical to start the game. If the coach doesn’t know it’s his fault.

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scrounge

Rich wrote
Based on the results of the football survey, I am just not bothering to complete these from now on. The rules committee just does what it wants anyway.

It does seem to be that way, yes. If sizable majorities of both coaches and officials are in favor of multiple rules changes, and none of them get passed? What's the point?

Raymond

RefRich wrote
If the coach answers no then you say, they better be before the start of the game or we’ll have a technical to start the game. If the coach doesn’t know it’s his fault.

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So the question has absolutely nothing to do with enforcement. The players are either legally equipped or not, and how or if the coach answers the question has no bearing on the punishment.

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LRZ

Raymond wrote
So the question has absolutely nothing to do with enforcement. The players are either legally equipped or not, and how or if the coach answers the question has no bearing on the punishment.

Raymond, you are correct. In PA, we are required to ask the question as part of our mandatory pre-game captains/coaches meeting. The perfunctory answer has always been yes; I've never had a coach say no.

And there is no linkage between an incorrect answer and the ruling when a player is illegally uniformed. The "punishment" is based on the illegality itself, not on the coach's earlier, erroneous reply to the question.

RefRich

Raymond wrote
So the question has absolutely nothing to do with enforcement. The players are either legally equipped or not, and how or if the coach answers the question has no bearing on the punishment.

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No argument with that and I don't believe asking the question is even needed. Ether they are or they aren't and that question will not correct the behavior.

BryanV21

RefRich wrote
No argument with that and I don't believe asking the question is even needed. Ether they are or they aren't and that question will not correct the behavior.

Can't you equate that to checking the book at around 12 minutes to give time to correct any mistakes? Even if you don't check early, just like not asking about the legality of the uniforms, the penalty is the same.

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Raymond

BryanV21 wrote
Can't you equate that to checking the book at around 12 minutes to give time to correct any mistakes? Even if you don't check early, just like not asking about the legality of the uniforms, the penalty is the same.

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It would be the equivalent if we were checking the uniforms instead of asking about them. We don't check the book by asking the coach if his roster has been correctly entered into the scorebook and if the starters are marked.

BryanV21

Raymond wrote
It would be the equivalent if were checking the uniforms instead of asking about them.

Fine. But the point is the same... It's not a bad idea to be proactive.

Honestly, I personally don't even ask anymore. But I'm not going to come down on those that do or work in places where it's required.

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bob jenkins

RefRich wrote
No argument with that and I don't believe asking the question is even needed. Ether they are or they aren't and that question will not correct the behavior.

True, if all we're talking about is, say, illegal numbers or something.

But, and this might be more true in other sports (the states / FED aren't going to have the question only for some sports and not for others), if someone is wearing / using something illegal and someone gets hurt by that illegal item, having asked the question can be part of a defense.

Raymond

BryanV21 wrote
Fine. But the point is the same... It's not a bad idea to be proactive.

Honestly, I personally don't even ask anymore. But I'm not going to come down on those that do or work in places where it's required.

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I'm coming down on the state, not the officials. We don't know if players are properly equipped until we visually inspect the players. Asking a coach doesn't change or influence the enforcement. And the only technical fouls are for illegal numbers and not wearing white@home/dark@road. So if his team is wearing a bunch of illegal t-shirts the only penalty is they can't participate until they remove the t-shirts.

[deleted]

Raymond wrote
Asking a coach doesn't change or influence the enforcement.

Unfortunately a lot of officials in my state think that if we don't ask, we can't enforce.

Of course they believe a lot of other things too. Like how referees are 'supposed' to stay opposite the table during the national anthem, lineups, etc. Which the mechanics manual alludes to during the pre-game warmup, but does not specify where officials should stand after the warmup.

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