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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2018, 08:56pm
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NCAA-W SC vs. Miss St. (video request)

1:37 in the second half. Live ball followed by dead ball unsportsmanlike foul.

The live ball foul was a good illustration of the NFHS POE.
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Old Tue Feb 06, 2018, 10:16am
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Old Tue Feb 06, 2018, 10:30am
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Why did #1 shoot the intentional foul FT? Can you select that for unsporting foul in NCAAW?
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Old Tue Feb 06, 2018, 10:38am
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Other than the verbiage by the announcers (and, Jeff, your words at the intro to the play), I think they got these right.

Both are unsportsmanlike fouls ("unsporting" has a different meaning in NCAAW -- it's non-contact behaviour). Neither is a technical foul, but both count to the two unsportsmanlike fouls for disqualification.

Because one was live ball and one was dead ball they do not offset (if both had been live or both had been dead, they would offset). Enforce in the order they happened -- and give the ball at the division line to the team that was last offended.
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Old Tue Feb 06, 2018, 10:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Man View Post
Why did #1 shoot the intentional foul FT? Can you select that for unsporting foul in NCAAW?

Yes -- just like for a T -- any player or eligible sub can shoot.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 02:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Neither is a technical foul, but both count to the two unsportsmanlike fouls for disqualification.
Correction: Unsporting behavior IS a Technical Foul (dead-ball contact may be deemed incidental), and Technicals DO NOT count towards the two Unsportsmanlike Foul disqualification count. If White #15 received a subsequent Unsportsmanlike Foul, she would not have been DQ'd.

The crew could've deemed #15's reaction as an Unsportsmanlike Foul, but seemed to decide the behavior/reaction was more relevant than the disengaging "contact".
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 08:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pizanno View Post
Correction: Unsporting behavior IS a Technical Foul (dead-ball contact may be deemed incidental), and Technicals DO NOT count towards the two Unsportsmanlike Foul disqualification count. If White #15 received a subsequent Unsportsmanlike Foul, she would not have been DQ'd.

The crew could've deemed #15's reaction as an Unsportsmanlike Foul, but seemed to decide the behavior/reaction was more relevant than the disengaging "contact".
Yes, "unsporting behavior" is a T. But, what happened in these plays was Unsportsmanlike Personal Fouls (and, yes, in NCAAW, you can have this type of personal foul while the ball is dead).

And, in NCAAW, a player is DQ for either two Ts or for two Unsportsmanlike fouls (but not for one of each) (which I think is what you said).

Edit: I think you are saying that Red was called for an Unsportsmanlike Foul and White was called for a T. If so, the FTs would be the same, but then White should get the ball for a throw-in. Since the officials gave the ball to Red, they either (a) deemed White's foul to be Unsportsmanlike, or, (b) kicked the administration.

Edit 2: The box score shows both teams with an Unsportsmanlike Foul at 1:37 (the time is from memory) and no Technical fouls

Last edited by bob jenkins; Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:51am.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pizanno View Post
Correction: Unsporting behavior IS a Technical Foul (dead-ball contact may be deemed incidental), and Technicals DO NOT count towards the two Unsportsmanlike Foul disqualification count. If White #15 received a subsequent Unsportsmanlike Foul, she would not have been DQ'd.

The crew could've deemed #15's reaction as an Unsportsmanlike Foul, but seemed to decide the behavior/reaction was more relevant than the disengaging "contact".
I may be confused on your wording, but like Bob said, they did assess both opponents an Unsportsmanlike Foul. One was live ball, one was dead, so they didn't "cancel," and that's why they shot both in order and administered the ball the way they did (correctly).

And if 15 had been assessed an UNSF later, she absolutely would've been ejected - not disqualified. I know most of us know this, but there's a big difference.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 12:32pm
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP View Post
And if 15 had been assessed an UNSF later, she absolutely would've been ejected - not disqualified. I know most of us know this, but there's a big difference.
I believe NCAA-W might use different terminology (the old F2 in NCAA-W is now called a "disqualifying foul"). Regardless, she'd have to leave the visual confines.
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Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 12:37pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I believe NCAA-W might use different terminology (the old F2 in NCAA-W is now called a "disqualifying foul"). Regardless, she'd have to leave the visual confines.
You believe correctly. And yes, the terminology between the two fouls and what happens when someone is forced to leave the game for different reasons is currently conflated.
And "visual confines," at least in NCAA-W, only applies, in the technical sense, to when the officials' jurisdiction ends.
An ejected player in NCAA-W must " leave the playing court and floor area and report to her team’s locker room until the game is over."
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Old Thu Feb 08, 2018, 01:39am
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Stand corrected.

Bob nailed it. I did't watch video all the way through. And thank you also for clarifying the DQ/ejection distinction. Important when it occurs.
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