The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 01:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 856
What do YOU do?

I teed up another coach in the middle school game last night, mind you the vast majority of my schedule is HS varsity assignments. And I have only called one technical foul on a coach at the Varsity level, but at the middle school level which I do probably say 25 games a year I have already T'ed up 3 coaches and 2 players.

This is year 18 for me, last year I worked 5 state playoff assignments. I am on my board's executive committee.

That gives you some background. I would rather not call technical fouls but when a coach displays unsportsmanlike conduct, whether it be continually telling me that I'm missing foul calls or walks and such, I wouldn't take that from a player and I don't take it from the coach. Therefore technical fouls have been called I'm thinking about 6 or 7 so far this year.

Do coaches in your area yell and scream at you, telling you about how many fouls you have missed and how you're missing walks and illegal screens? Do you call technical fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct when a coach does that?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: FL
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
Do coaches in your area yell and scream at you, telling you about how many fouls you have missed and how you're missing walks and illegal screens? Do you call technical fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct when a coach does that?
This has been my best season in a long time for coach behavior. Even the coach that is a thorn in my side with comments on every call was exceedingly pleasant when I had his game a few weeks ago. There are still occasional comments, begging for this or that. But, I've had very little, if any, yelling and screaming, and don't think we should allow it. It's just not appropriate behavior for a high school activity. I always prefer conversation to solve the problem, but when it doesn't work, yes, I address appropriately with a T.

The only one I've had this year was also a MS game. When the conversation ended with "then call it both ways!" the coach found himself coaching from the bench from the middle of the first quarter through the rest of the game. To his credit, he apologized after the game.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:14pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 12,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
I teed up another coach in the middle school game last night, mind you the vast majority of my schedule is HS varsity assignments. And I have only called one technical foul on a coach at the Varsity level, but at the middle school level which I do probably say 25 games a year I have already T'ed up 3 coaches and 2 players.

This is year 18 for me, last year I worked 5 state playoff assignments. I am on my board's executive committee.

That gives you some background. I would rather not call technical fouls but when a coach displays unsportsmanlike conduct, whether it be continually telling me that I'm missing foul calls or walks and such, I wouldn't take that from a player and I don't take it from the coach. Therefore technical fouls have been called I'm thinking about 6 or 7 so far this year.

Do coaches in your area yell and scream at you, telling you about how many fouls you have missed and how you're missing walks and illegal screens? Do you call technical fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct when a coach does that?
I've issued 7 books warnings for HC behavior. Six of them were no problem afterwards, the other one received a T from one of my partners later in the game.

I do not think I have called a T yet this season at the HS level.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:38pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 27,563
I do not like technical fouls, but they happen. I have had a few unusual incidents this year where I was "written up" by a coach for things that happen with technical fouls or ejections more than I ever had over my career.

I am also a two-time state final official, clinician for basketball and work some of the top tournaments in the area and I get yelled at like I was a rookie in many cases.

I think the problem the way I see it, that coaches and players really do not seem to understand their role in high school sports. They seem to think the behavior that happens in the pro ranks is acceptable. They think they can talk to us any kind of way. They say ridiculous statements that clearly are out of bounds and only suggest our reaction is either being sensitive or unprofessional if we simply draw a line in the sand, which might be because we gave then a technical foul.

I just heard a press conference with Doc Rivers (Coach of the Clippers) that suggested that he was given a T that was unwarranted in his mind because he did not curse or did not use inappropriate language. I did not realize the only reason you get a T was that they curse, but that is was his comment. I think coaches at the high school level are convinced they and say damn near anything and we are just to accept it. But what is ironic, get mad when we talk directly back to them about their comments or give a straight answer.

This to me is the overall problem. We are held to an unrealistic standard and they are expecting to do whatever if in their mind they have a legitimate beef about a call or situation they might not even know what the official saw.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 02:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 107
I agree with Raymond's view. I have issued 4 book warnings and only one ended up with a T (by another partner). 3 player Ts and all were easy no brainers.

Most times I think the middle school problem comes when an experienced official gets assigned and those coaches are used to sometimes the newbies and think all officials allow that behavior.

Last edited by Valley Man; Wed Jan 24, 2018 at 02:42pm.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 03:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Indiana
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I think the problem the way I see it, that coaches and players really do not seem to understand their role in high school sports. They seem to think the behavior that happens in the pro ranks is acceptable.
THIS! Nail on the head! Good Post JRutledge. I would ask why you don't like Ts...It's a tool at our disposal and sometimes the only tool that works on some knuckleheads.

Being a guy that coaches youth teams (This year I have 5th grade boys travel) and one who officiates, I like to think I have a keen understanding of both sides. Most guys at the lower levels do not know their role. That's not to say there are not some really good coaches out there but if you are focused on the ref more than your kids...you're doing it all wrong! I rarely say anything to the refs unless its guys/gals I have called games with and it's all in fun

I had a middle school coach last week who I admit, I probably let speak too long before I dropped my first (of this year) Official Warning on him. As SOON as I turned to go back to position, he says "Then call the game right" so I T'd him immediately.

After the FTs he's still standing in the box and I inform him he will need to sit down and he says "Who are you talking to?" I informed him again he has lost the coaching box and would have to sit...he replies with "You can't make me sit"...I simply told him if he didn't know or understand the rule it was not my issue and I asked him one more time to have a seat to which he had some more comments and thus he watched the rest of the game from the locker room.

I don't get why a Coach doesn't take into consideration that he is representing their school/community/players/parents and their on display for all to see.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 03:19pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SE PA
Posts: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I think the problem the way I see it, that coaches and players ... seem to think the behavior that happens in the pro ranks is acceptable. They think they can talk to us any kind of way.
I think coaches at the high school level are convinced they and say damn near anything and we are just to accept it. But what is ironic, get mad when we talk directly back to them about their comments or give a straight answer.
Amen.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 04:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: A little east of there.
Posts: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
Do coaches in your area yell and scream at you, telling you about how many fouls you have missed and how you're missing walks and illegal screens? Do you call technical fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct when a coach does that?
A few do. I don't tolerate it. My first technical foul to a coach this season was for that very reason. He's giving the "illegal use of hands" mechanic and screaming "THAT'S A FOUL. CALL THE FOUL!!!!" (in my ear) at my partner all the way across the floor at the C as we transitioned up the floor.

whistle....stick....report....moved away...FTs

Much much smoother game after he got the invisible seat belt.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 04:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Virginia
Posts: 113
In sub-varsity, I take absolutely nothing and I make sure my partners don't either. These kids are 13, 14, 15 years old, no one's scholarship is on the line, and yet you still have those JV coaches who think they're Bobby Knight and think they can behave like that because they're wearing a polo with the school's logo on it and holding a clipboard. Had a coach in a JV game last night yell out "TRAVEL" in the first quarter. I wanted to warn him, but my partner got there first.

In varsity, the coaches are generally a lot more knowledgeable about the rules and the game, so their questions are often more valid and they get more leeway.

I actually had a game a couple weeks ago where I knew one of the coaches was going to be a problem. She always is. On the drive there I told myself I wasn't driving an hour each way to take shit from someone half my height and twice my age. The first toe she put out of line, she got warned.

For some background, I'm only 25 and by far the youngest official in our area who gets varsity assignments. I have to be a little bit more of a dick to gain respect.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 04:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 241
Here is our problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef View Post
For some background, I'm only 25 and by far the youngest official in our area who gets varsity assignments. I have to be a little bit more of a dick to gain respect.
I couldn't disagree with this statement more. What you - and several others - fail to recognize is that we are in the customer service business. I am not suggesting that we bend over and let coaches/players verbally abuse us, but it's our interpersonal skills that get us ahead.

Be the bigger person. DE-escalate the situation. Use the tools at your disposal (informal and formal warnings). If it's personal, it's a T. If it's public, it's a T.

But 'being a dick' is not going to get you any respect. From coaches...or from partners.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 05:18pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 27,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt S. View Post
I couldn't disagree with this statement more. What you - and several others - fail to recognize is that we are in the customer service business. I am not suggesting that we bend over and let coaches/players verbally abuse us, but it's our interpersonal skills that get us ahead.

Be the bigger person. DE-escalate the situation. Use the tools at your disposal (informal and formal warnings). If it's personal, it's a T. If it's public, it's a T.

But 'being a dick' is not going to get you any respect. From coaches...or from partners.
So coaches are not in the people business? Because you can yell and scream at your youth players, does not give you the license to be disrespectful to me as a grown ass man because you do not like a call. I have a right to be talked to a certain way. I have enough sense to know that if I talk to a judge a certain way there are consequences. I know that if I talk to a police officer a certain way I will have to deal with those consequences. You do not want an official to be a dick, then be respectful to that person doing their job. We are not fighting coaches, we are giving them a penalty that if we follow the rules we can use much more for any questioning of our judgment. Clearly, we do not penalize coaches to that extent.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 05:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 241
Agreed

Jeff, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The comment that I quoted came from an individual that stated his age - which tells me he's been working varsity ball for at most, 7 years.

All I was trying to say is that a little maturity goes a long way - and that goes both ways, without a doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 05:48pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 12,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt S. View Post
...

But 'being a dick' is not going to get you any respect. From coaches...or from partners.
Sometimes it does. Or sometimes it gets the coach to stop talking to you, which isn't a bad thing.

If the coach is someone who is always a d!ck every game, then at some point diplomacy turns to "treat them as they treat you".
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 06:14pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 27,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt S. View Post
Jeff, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The comment that I quoted came from an individual that stated his age - which tells me he's been working varsity ball for at most, 7 years.

All I was trying to say is that a little maturity goes a long way - and that goes both ways, without a doubt.
I actually agree with being mature. But I think the problem is that coaches and players put us in a bad spot. They can say all kinds of things about this official who might look young and then get upset when he addresses it.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 07:31pm
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I've issued 7 books warnings for HC behavior. Six of them were no problem afterwards, the other one received a T from one of my partners later in the game.

I do not think I have called a T yet this season at the HS level.
Last night had a game with two coaches that have reputations as being very chatty..three minutes into the game, my partner and I called both coaches to the table and gave each of them a book warning and they were fine the rest of the game.

Thoughts on giving book warnings as early as possible or be patient?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:11pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1