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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 08:54pm
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I meant being a dick in the context of the game. It's not like I refuse to shake a coach's hand before a game. Sheesh.

If I'm working a game with two 20-year vets, who's gonna get picked on by the coach?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 24, 2018, 09:09pm
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Had a game this week, varsity boys, where the visiting bench had a comment each time by. It was four or so minutes into the first half and the bench had a comment about the crews no call on the other end. Whistle, “Official warning for the red team, unsporting behavior from the bench.”

Coach snaps. Starts yelling how embarrassing this is and that they are a Lutheran school. Not exactly sure why that mattered. Proceeded to follow me to the end line yelling the same things over and over again. Whack!

The rest of the game went great. He coaches his team, we had running clock, the other coach was also much more pleasant, it was a great game.

And before a couple of you get all worked up, we asked him to ask respectful questions and to manage his bench before any of these events. All in the first five minutes.......good times.

Like others have said, it is a tool for us to use to better the game. I treat it like any other foul and I truly believe that. There is marginal contact and there is contact that draws a foul. There are comments/behaviors that don’t cross the line, and ones that do. Both have consequences.

A lot of other officials say to be empathetic to coaches and players since they put so much time and effort into their sport. That’s great and all, but you will treat officials with respect.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 09:09am
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Originally Posted by pfan1981 View Post
A lot of other officials say to be empathetic to coaches and players since they put so much time and effort into their sport. That’s great and all, but you will treat officials with respect.
Agreed wholeheartedly. If we, as officials, continually work on our professionalism, interpersonal skills and game management, then there's absolutely no reason not to expect coaches to be doing the same. If for no other reason, they are full-time paid professionals. I know how these guys/gals interact in the hallways and classrooms and break rooms with their students and colleagues. Extremely courteous and professional.

That should flow right down the hallway and into the gymnasium on game nights.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 09:22am
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Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef View Post
In sub-varsity, I take absolutely nothing and I make sure my partners don't either. These kids are 13, 14, 15 years old, no one's scholarship is on the line, and yet you still have those JV coaches who think they're Bobby Knight and think they can behave like that because they're wearing a polo with the school's logo on it and holding a clipboard. Had a coach in a JV game last night yell out "TRAVEL" in the first quarter. I wanted to warn him, but my partner got there first.

In varsity, the coaches are generally a lot more knowledgeable about the rules and the game, so their questions are often more valid and they get more leeway.

I actually had a game a couple weeks ago where I knew one of the coaches was going to be a problem. She always is. On the drive there I told myself I wasn't driving an hour each way to take shit from someone half my height and twice my age. The first toe she put out of line, she got warned.

For some background, I'm only 25 and by far the youngest official in our area who gets varsity assignments. I have to be a little bit more of a dick to gain respect.
Settle down!

Giving warnings for coaches yelling "travel"? Wow!!!!!!!

I don't know any fellow officials that gain respect by being a dick. I would guess they are laughing at you and your over the top authority behind your back. I don't know how your assignor feels, but they might start to get tired of your act as well. Maybe you have a shortage of officials in your area and they are forced to hire you and put up with you being a dick?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 09:25am
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Originally Posted by Matt S. View Post
I couldn't disagree with this statement more. What you - and several others - fail to recognize is that we are in the customer service business. I am not suggesting that we bend over and let coaches/players verbally abuse us, but it's our interpersonal skills that get us ahead.

Be the bigger person. DE-escalate the situation. Use the tools at your disposal (informal and formal warnings). If it's personal, it's a T. If it's public, it's a T.

But 'being a dick' is not going to get you any respect. From coaches...or from partners.
Spot on! Some guys have "little man" disease and some love the implied power and authority that officiating gets them.

What I've learned from this website is that while we are a fraternity, how things are done, handled, assigned, dealt with, etc. etc. varies so much across our country.

In my area, being a "dick" will get you fewer and fewer games and LESS respect from everybody.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 09:27am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
So coaches are not in the people business? Because you can yell and scream at your youth players, does not give you the license to be disrespectful to me as a grown ass man because you do not like a call. I have a right to be talked to a certain way. I have enough sense to know that if I talk to a judge a certain way there are consequences. I know that if I talk to a police officer a certain way I will have to deal with those consequences. You do not want an official to be a dick, then be respectful to that person doing their job. We are not fighting coaches, we are giving them a penalty that if we follow the rules we can use much more for any questioning of our judgment. Clearly, we do not penalize coaches to that extent.

Peace
So you are supporting this guy being a dick?

There is being a dick and there is being a good official that can deal with things while not being a dick. Two very different methods in my opinion.

I do not agree that giving Ts and warnings makes you a dick. That's handling business. Since this guy said he needs to act like a dick to get respect, that tells me a lot about the guy's ego and officiating ability.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 09:28am
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Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef View Post
I meant being a dick in the context of the game. It's not like I refuse to shake a coach's hand before a game. Sheesh.

If I'm working a game with two 20-year vets, who's gonna get picked on by the coach?
Apparently you can't handle being picked on and go the path of being a self described dick.

Maybe that's acceptable in your area? Maybe people are fine with how you act in your area?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 09:49am
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Originally Posted by SD Referee View Post
So you are supporting this guy being a dick?

There is being a dick and there is being a good official that can deal with things while not being a dick. Two very different methods in my opinion.

I do not agree that giving Ts and warnings makes you a dick. That's handling business. Since this guy said he needs to act like a dick to get respect, that tells me a lot about the guy's ego and officiating ability.
Or maybe there are a lot of d!ck coaches where he works. I've come across quite a few. And sometimes being an a-hole back to them is the only way they get the message. And when a coach is having a private conversation with me, and is talking to me in a a-holish tone, he is going to get a d!ckhead response. Not really concerned what folks in Cumbaya-land think about it.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 09:54am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Or maybe there are a lot of d!ck coaches where he works. I've come across quite a few. And sometimes being an a-hole back to them is the only way they get the message. And when a coach is having a private conversation with me, and is talking to me in a a-holish tone, he is going to get a d!ckhead response. Not really concerned what folks in Cumbaya-land think about it.
Say it louder for the people in the back.

The past couple years I worked games with several partners, respected officials in this area, who told me I let too much from coaches/players go. Clearly that was something that needed to change this year if I want to grow as an official.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 10:16am
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Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
Last night had a game with two coaches that have reputations as being very chatty..three minutes into the game, my partner and I called both coaches to the table and gave each of them a book warning and they were fine the rest of the game.

Thoughts on giving book warnings as early as possible or be patient?
My motto with the warning (which I have been doing for years glad it is official now) is to use it if you think that it can prevent a technical foul. If you are using it just thinking that you will T them up later in the game don't delay.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 10:49am
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Originally Posted by SD Referee View Post
So you are supporting this guy being a dick?

There is being a dick and there is being a good official that can deal with things while not being a dick. Two very different methods in my opinion.

I do not agree that giving Ts and warnings makes you a dick. That's handling business. Since this guy said he needs to act like a dick to get respect, that tells me a lot about the guy's ego and officiating ability.
I am supporting any official taking a stand of how they are treated. Yes, some things come with the territory, but total disrespect does not or does not have to be tolerated. Heck, some people think you are being a dick by just enforcing rules. So I really do not care what they call it, but you have a right to draw a clear line in the stand. They may not like it, but they will have to deal with it.

I do not put much stock in a group of people that have control over just about everything else in their arena but think they can somehow control us as officials. So if they think we are a dick because we tell them to stay in the coaching box, then I will be a dick.

Peace
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 10:50am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Or maybe there are a lot of d!ck coaches where he works. I've come across quite a few. And sometimes being an a-hole back to them is the only way they get the message. And when a coach is having a private conversation with me, and is talking to me in a a-holish tone, he is going to get a d!ckhead response. Not really concerned what folks in Cumbaya-land think about it.
Exactly!!!!!

Peace
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 10:58am
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All these threads remind me of George Carlin's routine on speeders (Idiots!) and slow-pokes (Morons!).

It can be summarized as "I handle coaches perfectly well. If you take more than I do, you're a pu**y. If you warn / whack earlier, you're a dick."

There's nothing wrong with opining on a particular situation ("as described, I would ...."), but I just don't get the name calling that follows for those who have a different opinion -- and I especially don't get it when it gets repeated.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 11:04am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
all these threads remind me of george carlin's routine on speeders (idiots!) and slow-pokes (morons!).

It can be summarized as "i handle coaches perfectly well. If you take more than i do, you're a pu**y. If you warn / whack earlier, you're a dick."

there's nothing wrong with opining on a particular situation ("as described, i would ...."), but i just don't get the name calling that follows for those who have a different opinion -- and i especially don't get it when it gets repeated.
+1
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 25, 2018, 11:07am
LRZ LRZ is offline
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"What you - and several others - fail to recognize is that we are in the customer service business."

Nope. I am not in the customer service business, nor is the "customer" always right. I am a referee, the neutral third party in the triangle of interscholastic competition.
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