Coaches Behavior

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Raymond

An official can be technically correct in how they handled a situation, but it may not have been the best way in the eyes of the assignor. An official may have suggested to game admin to have a spectator removed. An assignor can back that official's decision to conference administrator while at the same time telling his official that in the future it would be best to ignore such a fan.

I don't disagree with this.

But if I'm sent a video and asked about a play or a sequence and the official was obviously wrong, I'll say so. For me to do otherwise would dilute the message I send when the official is right.

Of course the communication is all done professionally.


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[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Well I don't think he said he wouldn't call a T, just that he hasn't.

Correct.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't disagree with this.

But if I'm sent a video and asked about a play or a sequence and the official was obviously wrong, I'll say so. For me to do otherwise would dilute the message I send when the official is right.

Of course the communication is all done professionally.


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Oh yeah, definitely agree when it comes to play-calling and on court situations.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Raymond

An official can be technically correct in how they handled a situation, but it may not have been the best way in the eyes of the assignor. An official may have suggested to game admin to have a spectator removed. An assignor can back that official's decision to conference administrator while at the same time telling his official that in the future it would be best to ignore such a fan.

Exactly. And very similar to the situation I provided as an example.

People can offer all sorts of platitudes about who they think should be in charge of whatever but its a fact of life that people in charge of things at various levels externally communicate things one way, while internally having a more pointed message to the individuals involved.

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't disagree with this.

But if I'm sent a video and asked about a play or a sequence and the official was obviously wrong, I'll say so. For me to do otherwise would dilute the message I send when the official is right.

Of course the communication is all done professionally.


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I don't see where anyone has suggested otherwise.

As Raymond noted there is a difference between plays, on the court sequences, rules administration, etc. and something like engaging a fan.

One can be transparent and still communicate slightly different messages to different audiences.

In the situation similar to what I described it does no good for an assigner to tell an administrator, "this guy is a loose cannon, I told him if he ever pulls that crap again he will never work another game for me."

Rather, he can say something like, "I have spoken with my official about the need to handle such situations through game management. Please make sure that in the future, clear protocols are in place to discourage and address fans making personal comments to game officials."

Privately to the official he may say, "please don't be stupid. If a fan makes a dumb comment like that without any further action just ignore it or report it to game management. This is not the first time we've discussed something like this so don't do that again if you want to continue working games in this board."

This is not a lack of transparency. Its professionally handling a situation with both external and internal audiences.

[Rich]

An administrator is not an external audience.

The administrators write my paycheck.


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[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Rich

An administrator is not an external audience.

The administrators write my paycheck.


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Ok, that's all well and good.

Here, the administrators don't, at least directly write our assigners paycheck, and they are not part of our board.

All that aside, do you have an issue with the hypothetical communication in my post above?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Ok, that's all well and good.



Here, the administrators don't, at least directly write our assigners paycheck, and they are not part of our board.



All that aside, do you have an issue with the hypothetical communication in my post above?

I don't - here I was hired by my schools. We don't really assign through associations here. I can hire anyone licensed by the state.

Don't misunderstand - I am as pro-official as they come, while being transparent as best I can. My last conversation with a crew at a game site was to tell them the one coach should've been warned early and whacked. Of course I told the AD something similar the next day.


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[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't - here I was hired by my schools. We don't really assign through associations here. I can hire anyone licensed by the state.

Don't misunderstand - I am as pro-official as they come, while being transparent as best I can. My last conversation with a crew at a game site was to tell them the one coach should've been warned early and whacked. Of course I told the AD something similar the next day.


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Well, I think we are mostly on the same page.

My only point is really re-stating what Raymond already said more succinctly than I'm able to do.

One can be pro official and support an official's decision, or authority to make that decision, while privately expressing to that official their preference for he or she to make a different decision should a similar situation arise in the future.

[SC Official]

My R tonight got rid of a visiting team fan who was holding up his glasses for and yelling at the other crew member. The fan was sitting all alone right behind the table so he kinda stuck out, which I guess is why he got rid of him.

He actually asked the fan directly “Do you want to stay here?” and I think the fan dared him to get rid of him, so he went to the deputy and did just that. I wouldn’t have gone to the fan directly and probably wouldn’t have even tossed him for what he did, but when you’ve been around as long as this R has you earn some leeway in how you handle things.

[JRutledge]

I used to have partners that I would work a great deal of games with that would do something they called, "Playing the game."

They would have a fan that would act very stupid or stand out and they would sit next to each other, point and act like they were talking about the guy/gal and every time the obnoxious fan would either shut up or their spouse/partner or friends around them would hit them to shut up. Even one time there was a guy that left on his own immediately. It was hilarious how often this worked. They did not do it all the time or every game. It was rare, but it worked. BTW, they would be talking about where they were going to eat or how good their hair looked, but it was nothing to do directly with the fan or saying anything they could hear. Often it was done in the middle of the court during a timeout.

Peace

Originally Posted by SC Official

He actually asked the fan directly “Do you want to stay here?” and I think the fan dared him to get rid of him, so he went to the deputy and did just that.

This guy probably teaches the local “Baiting 101” referee class.

[Randa16]

I have only threw out one fan ever. I was doing a 8th grade youth league game on a Saturday afternoon. It is my second game of four and have a young official for the first 2 and someone different for the last two. Its one of those set ups where the fans are behind the goals. Partner calls a foul and as I am walking to take the ball out I hear a fan in the stands yelling you guys are horrible, I look up and I kid you not he is in referee gear. I ask if he is working and he says I am working the next two after this game. I am red hot right now because I expect it from fans not other officials. I say you need to knock it off, as I am walking away he says loud then call the game right. I turn and eject him from the game. The supervisor takes him away as he is laughing and saying this is a joke. Game is over and here he comes walking up saying going to be hard to eject your partner. I call my league assignor and tell him what happened and he is furious, ten seconds after I got off the phone with him my partners phone rings and he says not a problem I can stay. Ten seconds later the supervisors phone rings and he says not a problem. Tells the guy he was ejected and the ejection last all day so he cant work. If the guy was just a fan I ignore it but the fact he would sit there in a referee uniform knowing how hard this game can be and talk trash was my breaking point.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by Randa16

I have only threw out one fan ever. I was doing a 8th grade youth league game on a Saturday afternoon. It is my second game of four and have a young official for the first 2 and someone different for the last two. Its one of those set ups where the fans are behind the goals. Partner calls a foul and as I am walking to take the ball out I hear a fan in the stands yelling you guys are horrible, I look up and I kid you not he is in referee gear. I ask if he is working and he says I am working the next two after this game. I am red hot right now because I expect it from fans not other officials. I say you need to knock it off, as I am walking away he says loud then call the game right. I turn and eject him from the game. The supervisor takes him away as he is laughing and saying this is a joke. Game is over and here he comes walking up saying going to be hard to eject your partner. I call my league assignor and tell him what happened and he is furious, ten seconds after I got off the phone with him my partners phone rings and he says not a problem I can stay. Ten seconds later the supervisors phone rings and he says not a problem. Tells the guy he was ejected and the ejection last all day so he cant work. If the guy was just a fan I ignore it but the fact he would sit there in a referee uniform knowing how hard this game can be and talk trash was my breaking point.

Wow, that's an all-timer. You absolutely did the right thing, and good on the assignor too. That kind of nonsense would get you before the association disciplinary board for unethical behavior here...

[BillyMac]

(A Shakespeare reference (The Scottish Play) on the Forum, is that cool, or what?)

I would never eject a fan, that is, I would never take it upon myself to tell a fan that they have to leave. I could make such a decision, but I'm not interacting (and certainly not confronting) with the fan in any way (verbally, physically, pointing, gestures, etc.)

What I would do, and have done, is to instruct someone in charge (principal, athletic director, site manager, coach, janitor, even the police officer in the corner), to have the fan removed, and that I wouldn't restart the game until my instructions were fulfilled.

No way am I physically removing the fan, in fact, no way am I physically removing anybody, coach, player, etc. (but I will tell team members that they are ejected and possibly throw in the non-official baseball "heave ho" signal to let everyone know what's going on).

I will wait, even if I have to wait in the locker room, until that fan is gone, and I can be very, very, patient.

Note: After a few fan confrontations in parking lots after games last season (one that required a 911 call and police intervention), officials here in my little corner of Connecticut have been strongly encouraged to leave the game site together.