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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 10, 2017, 09:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Because I am giving B2 the defensive player exception, not the throw-in exception. The interp this season is the first one that I've ever seen which states that a defensive player doesn't get his backcourt exception if the pass is tipped. I've never seen that before in twenty years of NFHS officiating and believe that it is a mistake.
OK I read the rule and I can see your dilemma. It does seem to be a conflicting bit of information. I can also see why people are splitting hairs over where the player initially jumped from - the frontcourt or backcourt, but I think it's just that - splitting hairs. I don't think there's anything there - just a poorly worded rule. The best argument I can come up with is that technically there is still no offense or defense because there is still no team control. Reading the POE in this year's Rule Book, it specifically states Team Control only applies for fouls by the throwing in team. It's not team control inbounds. Each team has a frontcourt and a backcourt, however, so each team can still create a backcourt violation. So neither team is the defense yet so you have to call the violation regardless of which team grabs the ball and comes down first foot in the frontcourt, second foot in the backcourt.

EDIT: Bob already said this in post #7 so I'm feeling vindicated

Last edited by Smitty; Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 10:06am.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2017, 05:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
OK I read the rule and I can see your dilemma. It does seem to be a conflicting bit of information. I can also see why people are splitting hairs over where the player initially jumped from - the frontcourt or backcourt, but I think it's just that - splitting hairs. I don't think there's anything there - just a poorly worded rule. The best argument I can come up with is that technically there is still no offense or defense because there is still no team control. Reading the POE in this year's Rule Book, it specifically states Team Control only applies for fouls by the throwing in team. It's not team control inbounds. Each team has a frontcourt and a backcourt, however, so each team can still create a backcourt violation. So neither team is the defense yet so you have to call the violation regardless of which team grabs the ball and comes down first foot in the frontcourt, second foot in the backcourt.

EDIT: Bob already said this in post #7 so I'm feeling vindicated
Now look what Bob just wrote in post #30. That is consistent with what the NFHS rule has been for twenty years.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2017, 09:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Now look what Bob just wrote in post #30. That is consistent with what the NFHS rule has been for twenty years.
Bobís #30 post is specific to NCAAW, not NFHS. The NFHS rules are not the same. It seems pretty clear to me that in high school this is a violation.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2017, 10:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Now look what Bob just wrote in post #30. That is consistent with what the NFHS rule has been for twenty years.
This is from 2007:

SITUATION 7: Team A is making a throw-in near the division line in the team's backcourt (Team B's frontcourt). A1's throw-in is deflected by B1, who is applying direct pressure on A1. B2 jumps from his/her frontcourt, catches the ball in the air and lands in the backcourt. RULING: Backcourt violation on Team B. The throw-in ends with B1's deflection (legal touch). When B2 gains possession/ control in the air, he/she has frontcourt status. A backcourt violation has occurred when B2 lands in backcourt. (9-9-1; 9-9-3)
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:18am
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Confused!

FED 2017-2018 RB

9-9-1.3

During a jump ball, throw in or while on defense, a player may legally jump from his/her front court etc...

I was told this rule was changed years ago!
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Last edited by thumpferee; Sat Nov 11, 2017 at 11:24am.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 11, 2017, 11:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee View Post
FED 2017-2018 RB

9-9-1.3

During a jump ball, throw in or while on defense, a player may legally jump from his/her front court etc...

I was told this rule was changed years ago!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 20, 2017, 02:14pm
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Contradictory statement...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
The defensive exception doesnít exist until player control inbounds has been established. Itís clear that thatís the way the FED expects this to be adjudicated.
I don't know where the idea comes from that there is not any offense or defense until the ball is controlled inbounds. in this years points of emphasis, the NFHS clearly seems to think that the team taking the ball in bounds is on offense, hence the other team B must be on defense:
From page 69 of the rule book: ...BY RULE EXCEPTION, during a throw-in a team may leave the front court, establish player control/team control while airborne and land in the backcourt. This is a legal play and ONLY applies to the first player of the offense who touches the ball PRIOR to the end of the throw-in.
It is my opinion that the NFHS has twisted this interpretation - and apparently did the same thing back in 2007, when the same play was interpreted. Interesting to note that this play was NOT in last year's case book...It would be interesting to see when it was removed.

As for Situation #6 - I also agree that the defense should always be allowed to intercept a pass and not be responsible from where he took off. BUT also agree that the current language only applies to a defender who leaves the floor from his frontcourt. the NFHS should fix this language as well.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 20, 2017, 02:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeMrRef View Post
...BUT also agree that the current language only applies to a defender who leaves the floor from his frontcourt. the NFHS should fix this language as well.
If the defensive player is jumping from his backcourt, it doesn't matter where he lands.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 20, 2017, 06:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
If the defensive player is jumping from his backcourt, it doesn't matter where he lands.
Are you sure about that?
What do you do when the first foot comes down in the frontcourt and the second lands in the backcourt?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 20, 2017, 07:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Are you sure about that?
What do you do when the first foot comes down in the frontcourt and the second lands in the backcourt?
Nothing. While the rule doesn't explicitly cover this situation, I think it is clear that they want to allow a defender to make a normal landing (both feet down) after securing control while in the air.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 20, 2017, 10:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Nothing. While the rule doesn't explicitly cover this situation, I think it is clear that they want to allow a defender to make a normal landing (both feet down) after securing control while in the air.
The exception only applies to certain situations when player jumps from FC. If player jumps from back Court normal rules apply. Normal landing language doesn't apply. You jump from BC, first foot lands in FC u are now in FC. Second foot down in BC.Violation. The thread has gotten bit confused but If you read earlier responses u will agree with Nevada etc.

Last edited by BigCat; Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 10:49pm.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 21, 2017, 08:20am
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Perhaps a related play:

Team A has the ball for a throw-in. A2 jumps and catches the ball and lands with one foot in the frontcourt, near the division line. BEFORE A2 puts the other foot on the floor, A2 begins a dribble -- the first bounce of the dribble is in the backcourt. A2 then places the second foot on the floor in the backcourt and continues to dribble the ball (moving completely into the backcourt). Legal or BC violation?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 21, 2017, 09:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Perhaps a related play:

Team A has the ball for a throw-in. A2 jumps and catches the ball and lands with one foot in the frontcourt, near the division line. BEFORE A2 puts the other foot on the floor, A2 begins a dribble -- the first bounce of the dribble is in the backcourt. A2 then places the second foot on the floor in the backcourt and continues to dribble the ball (moving completely into the backcourt). Legal or BC violation?
I'm going to assume your player, A2, jumped from the FC so that exception MIGHT apply. Assuming that, this is a violation. The exception allows A2 to catch ball in air after having jumped from FC and make a normal landing. When he does catch the ball in air having jumped from FC he has FC status. When he dribbles in BC and touches ball again he has violated. The exception allows him a normal landing. Not a dribble while landing...That is not NORMAL
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