How to handle end of game clock situation

[ronny mulkey]

5.0 seconds left on the clock
division line throw in
throw in completed into the team's front court
dribble to basket
subsequent shot
ball caroms off rim
still 5.0 seconds left on clock
Timer admits that the clock was never started
officials have no count or definite knowledge of time elapsed

What do you do? Do over? Or, go to rebound and finish from there?

[HokiePaul]

You have definitive knowledge that more than zero seconds came off the clock. A tap for goal is .3 seconds, and you had at least .4 if there was a shot involved. Start with that and get with your partners and decide if 1 second definitely went off, if 2 seconds definitely went off, etc.

If it is less than 5 seconds, put the ball in play at the point of interruption. If more than 5 seconds, the game is over.

And next time everyone should have a count in their head.

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

And next time everyone should have a count in their head.

Next time everyone should be blowing it dead when they see the clock not starting. Easiest way to fix this.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Next time everyone should be blowing it dead when they see the clock not starting. Easiest way to fix this.

You still need a count since you will need to adjust clock and inbound the ball from the POI.

[Valley Man]

Since the ball is in the front court and you don't have a backcourt or closely guarded count .. You can't just have a count!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

Since the ball is in the front court and you don't have a backcourt or closely guarded count .. You can't just have a count!

Yes, you can -- and yes, you should. It's not visible, of course, but each official should have one.

And, with five seconds left, there's plenty of opportunity for one of the two/three officials to see that the clock didn't start.

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

You still need a count since you will need to adjust clock and inbound the ball from the POI.

There are two options supported by rule: you can either blow it dead and adjust the clock and inbound from the POI, or you can blow it dead, leave the clock where is was originally, and inbound from the original location.

[Valley Man]

Originally Posted by AremRed

There are two options supported by rule: you can either blow it dead and adjust the clock and inbound from the POI, or you can blow it dead, leave the clock where is was originally, and inbound from the original location.

Adjust it with what count? Supported rule count

You have to catch it right away and leave it at 5.0 and go from original spot

or

I think I would ask everyone at the table if there is any alternate timing device that could help us out (not a likely thing to have around). If there’s no other information that can help, sounds like we just have to take the ball to the POI and give it to whoever had it when we stopped play. Then we finish those 5 seconds and GTFO as quickly as possible.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AremRed

There are two options supported by rule: you can either blow it dead and adjust the clock and inbound from the POI, or you can blow it dead, leave the clock where is was originally, and inbound from the original location.

I don't think that is supported by rule (maybe I am mis-understanding it)

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by AremRed

There are two options supported by rule: you can either blow it dead and adjust the clock and inbound from the POI, or you can blow it dead, leave the clock where is was originally, and inbound from the original location.

no do overs from the original spot. you may have to leave 5 seconds because you have no other definite knowledge but the ball would go in play to wherever it was when you killed it. i haven't gotten my head into the rules like I should just yet but I don't know where you can go back to the original location under the rules...

[deecee]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Next time everyone should be blowing it dead when they see the clock not starting. Easiest way to fix this.

Under 5 seconds, blowing this dead to fix, and possibly remove time to then have the team redo the throw in with LESS time is tantamount to a disaster. You are screwed either way, but I would always count. It's a tough spot.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

5.0 seconds left on the clock
division line throw in
throw in completed into the team's front court
dribble to basket
subsequent shot
ball caroms off rim
still 5.0 seconds left on clock
Timer admits that the clock was never started
officials have no count or definite knowledge of time elapsed

What do you do? Do over? Or, go to rebound and finish from there?

I am getting with my partners and discussing how much time to remove from the clock. If there was no one visible count then we are going to do our best to establish a reasonable correction. Flight time of the ball from 20 feet would be nearly a second. A dribble and the shooting motion another 2 seconds. If a play was dead before a rebound was secured then I would go to the possession arrow at the POI.

A referee's duty is to correct obvious timing errors. We are only required to visibly count seconds during a throw-in, free-throw, backcourt, and closely guarded. You would think in this situation that the defense would be within 6 feet of the ball handler and the primary would be counting and this would be a straight forward fix.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CJP

If there was no one visible count then we are going to do our best to establish a reasonable correction. Flight time of the ball from 20 feet would be nearly a second. A dribble and the shooting motion another 2 seconds.

That is not a valid way to handle this.

You can't approximate that events must have taken at least X time and use that. That isn't information, that is a guess. You must have definite information....a count.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That is not a valid way to handle this.

You can't approximate that events must have taken at least X time and use that. That isn't information, that is a guess. You must have definite information....a count.

Agree

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That is not a valid way to handle this.

You can't approximate that events must have taken at least X time and use that. That isn't information, that is a guess. You must have definite information....a count.

If someone in the crew says they were counting, we will go with that. If everyone drops the ball then I don't think there is anything else you can do.