NCAA-M Backcourt Case Play Change

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The only higher up who counts is Art Hyland. I know the rules better than all my college supervisors. All my supervisors have 2-3 guys on their staff (or Al Battista) whom they go to for rules questions. When looking for confirmation from the NCAA, those questions go directly to Art Hyland.

It's wrong regardless of the rule change. That rule change has nothing to do with this play. There would need to be a rule change on when a throw-in ends for this case play to be valid.

By the logic in this A.R., B1 could deflect the ball in the frontcourt, and A2 could recover it on the frontcourt side of the division line and inadvertently step into the backcourt, and there would be no violation.

There has to be a point at which the deflection by the defense is no longer relevant. If A2 (re)gaining player control with frontcourt status doesn't cancel the relevance of the deflection, what does?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SC Official

By the logic in this A.R., B1 could deflect the ball in the frontcourt, and A2 could recover it on the frontcourt side of the division line and inadvertently step into the backcourt, and there would be no violation.

There has to be a point at which the deflection by the defense is no longer relevant. If A2 (re)gaining player control with frontcourt status doesn't cancel the relevance of the deflection, what does?

Maybe (and it's just a thought), the exception for a defensive player who jumps and then lands in his backcourt is extended to both teams once the defense touches / deflects the ball.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Maybe (and it's just a thought), the exception for a defensive player who jumps and then lands in his backcourt is extended to both teams once the defense touches / deflects the ball.

You may be right in that maybe that’s the intent, but the NCAA didn’t rewrite those rules.

Who would've thought it would be the NCAA with the faulty backcourt play after all the issues in FED over the years?

[IncorrectCall]

Originally Posted by SC Official

By the logic in this A.R., B1 could deflect the ball in the frontcourt, and A2 could recover it on the frontcourt side of the division line and inadvertently step into the backcourt, and there would be no violation.

There has to be a point at which the deflection by the defense is no longer relevant. If A2 (re)gaining player control with frontcourt status doesn't cancel the relevance of the deflection, what does?

@ a NCAA Clinic, it was explained that if it was judged that CONTROL was gained while having front court status (and then going into the back court), then it would still be a violation.

Only applies to a deflection (by rule, ball is now loose), and a subsequent tap (non-controlled) by offensive team from front court to back court - offensive team can recover.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

@ a NCAA Clinic, it was explained that if it was judged that CONTROL was gained while having front court status (and then going into the back court), then it would still be a violation.

Only applies to a deflection (by rule, ball is now loose), and a subsequent tap (non-controlled) by offensive team from front court to back court - offensive team can recover.

Unfortunately, that is not what A.R. 222 says. In A.R. 222, control is gained while airborne with FC status and then A2 lands in the BC.

[IncorrectCall]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Unfortunately, that is not what A.R. 222 says. In A.R. 222, control is gained while airborne with FC status and then A2 lands in the BC.

Agreed - we discussed 222 at a league meeting I was at (Art not present).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

Agreed - we discussed 222 at a league meeting I was at (Art not present).

Do you know if Art is going to address this with a future correction bulletin?

I had registered for the Philly clinic, but I'm not going to be able to make it.

[IncorrectCall]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Do you know if Art is going to address this with a future correction bulletin?

I had registered for the Philly clinic, but I'm not going to be able to make it.

I would assume that he will - his response to a question about it (and a couple of other questions) was "let me get back to you".

[bucky]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

I would assume that he will - his response to a question about it (and a couple of other questions) was "let me get back to you".

I was going to suggest simply asking him directly. I have found that he has always been very quick to respond. I am confident that he will indeed "..get back to you." and we will have the answer.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bucky

I was going to suggest simply asking him directly. I have found that he has always been very quick to respond. I am confident that he will indeed "..get back to you." and we will have the answer.

I'm about to send him an email concerning the various shot-clock resets for a kicked ball. Based on the 2-11-6.b (exception), 2-11-7.b, & 2-11-8 here are the resets. One of them does not sound right:

FC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
FC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20
BC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
BC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 30
Throw-in kicked ball/over 20: no reset
Throw-in kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm about to send him an email concerning the various shot-clock resets for a kicked ball. Based on the 2-11-6.b (exception), 2-11-7.b, & 2-11-8 here are the resets. One of them does not sound right:

FC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
FC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20
BC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
BC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 30
Throw-in kicked ball/over 20: no reset
Throw-in kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20

I didn’t catch this, but I just read the text of the rule again and it seems that is what it says.

Rule 2-11.6.e: “Stop the timing device and reset it to 30 seconds when a violation occurs except as in Rule 2-11.7.a and .b.”

Rule 2-11.7.a and .b: “Stop the timing device and continue time without a reset when play is stopped under the following circumstances:

a. The ball is deflected or caused to be out of bounds by a defensive player;
b. When an intentionally kicked or fisted ball occurs with 20 seconds or more”

The Case Book doesn’t seem to help on this.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm about to send him an email concerning the various shot-clock resets for a kicked ball. Based on the 2-11-6.b (exception), 2-11-7.b, & 2-11-8 here are the resets. One of them does not sound right:

FC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
FC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20
BC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
BC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 30
Throw-in kicked ball/over 20: no reset
Throw-in kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20

I don't see this is a quick read of the rules (maybe it's somewhere else). I agree that there's a specific rule on the reset times for a kicked ball during a throw-in.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm about to send him an email concerning the various shot-clock resets for a kicked ball. Based on the 2-11-6.b (exception), 2-11-7.b, & 2-11-8 here are the resets. One of them does not sound right:

FC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
FC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20
BC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
BC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 30
Throw-in kicked ball/over 20: no reset
Throw-in kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't see this is a quick read of the rules (maybe it's somewhere else). I agree that there's a specific rule on the reset times for a kicked ball during a throw-in.

2-11-6.b (exception). Stop the timing device and reset it to 30 seconds: (Exception: When a personal or technical foul or kicking/fisting violation is committed by the defense and the ball is to be inbounded by the offense in the front court, the shot-clock will be reset to 20 seconds or the time remaining on the shot clock, whichever is greater.)

[IncorrectCall]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm about to send him an email concerning the various shot-clock resets for a kicked ball. Based on the 2-11-6.b (exception), 2-11-7.b, & 2-11-8 here are the resets. One of them does not sound right:

FC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
FC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20
BC kicked ball/over 20: no reset
BC kicked ball/under 20: reset to 30
Throw-in kicked ball/over 20: no reset
Throw-in kicked ball/under 20: reset to 20

This question was asked and discussed, and confirmed that reset to 30 in this instance was correct.

edit: which does not make sense.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

This question was asked and discussed, and confirmed that reset to 30 in this instance was correct.

edit: which does not make sense.

OK, thanks. I sent the play into Art but he hasn't replied yet.