Backcourt violation rule change? (over and back)

[HL Clippenchain]

NFHS--Yesterday, we had a girl dribbling up the sideline in the backcourt. A couple of feet before she gets to half-court, she jump stops, then pivots so that one foot crosses the half-court line. So she still has 1-2 points in the backcourt (as she's pivoting, the ball may have crossed or it may not have--I was paying more attention to the pivot foot and the action around the ball handler as she was being trapped).

As the ball handler pivots back to being completely in the back court (all 3 points), B's coach goes nuts and wants an over-and-back call.

I wasn't even thinking backcourt violation because the ballhandler maintained at least one point in the backcourt.

B's coach is saying there was a rule change this year that the ballhandler didn't have to have all 3 points over.

I just checked the Federation site and looked at the rules changes for 2007-2008 and I don't see anything close to that.

Did I miss something?

[Zoochy]

The only thing that was missing was the coach's brain.
Did he look like a scarecrow?
Was he from Kansas?

[Nevadaref]

You made the right call, but for the wrong reason.
Once the player picks up the ball and ceases to be a dribbler, the three points principle no longer applies. That rule is only for a player who is dribbling the ball. BTW it has not changed.

The relevant rules for this play are the ones governing ball and player location. The player location rule is 4-35. Articles 1 and 2 state that if the player is touching the floor in the backcourt, then that player is in the backcourt. When this is combined with 4-4-1, the appropriate ball location rule, it becomes clear that the ball and player remained in the backcourt during the entire play. Therefore, no violation of 9-9, the backcourt rule, could have taken place.

PS The 10-second count should continue.

[ranjo]

If the player jump-stopped by picking up her dribble, jumping off one foot and landing on two, and then pivots - I have a travel.

[HL Clippenchain]

Originally Posted by ranjo

If the player jump-stopped by picking up her dribble, jumping off one foot and landing on two, and then pivots - I have a travel.

Thanks for responding. The jump stop was fine, though, and the pivot was fine. The only issue at hand is the backcourt situation.

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by HL Clippenchain

Thanks for responding. The jump stop was fine, though, and the pivot was fine. The only issue at hand is the backcourt situation.

No, if she jump stopped and pivoted it is a travel. It is not fine.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by ranjo

If the player jump-stopped by picking up her dribble, jumping off one foot and landing on two, and then pivots - I have a travel.

That's what i have if I understand this correctly.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

PS The 10-second count should continue.

Maybe we start a closely guarded count...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

zoiks!! in a girls game?
Maybe we start a closely guarded count...

You are a new official, so perhaps you are just making a joke or perhaps you aren't aware that CA is one of the very few states that employs a shot clock at the HS level and hence doesn't have a bc 10-sec count in girls games, but does have a closely guarded count there. Most of the rest of the states in the nation don't do it the way that CA does.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are a new official, so perhaps you are just making a joke or perhaps you aren't aware that CA is one of the very few states that employs a shot clock at the HS level and hence doesn't have a bc 10-sec count in girls games, but does have a closely guarded count there. Most of the rest of the states in the nation don't do it the way that CA does.

...ignorance on my part.

wurd!

[lukealex]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are a new official, so perhaps you are just making a joke or perhaps you aren't aware that CA is one of the very few states that employs a shot clock at the HS level and hence doesn't have a bc 10-sec count in girls games, but does have a closely guarded count there. Most of the rest of the states in the nation don't do it the way that CA does.

I just moved out to CA, well 5 months ago now. Didn't get signed up in time for HS games though, just starting to do wreck league games to stay fresh. I didn't know about the shot clock rule, will be interesting to use next year. If anybody knows of any other contacts for wreck leagues out here it would be greatly appreciated also.

In response to the OP, remember if the same jump stop happens to be that one foot lands (at the same time) fully in the FC and one in the BC then the player uses the FC foot as the pivot, once s/he picks up the BC foot, that foot must come down in the FC or it will be an over and back violation. Just something else to add in.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by HL Clippenchain

NFHS--Yesterday, we had a girl dribbling up the sideline in the backcourt. A couple of feet before she gets to half-court, she jump stops, then pivots so that one foot crosses the half-court line. So she still has 1-2 points in the backcourt (as she's pivoting, the ball may have crossed or it may not have--I was paying more attention to the pivot foot and the action around the ball handler as she was being trapped).

As the ball handler pivots back to being completely in the back court (all 3 points), B's coach goes nuts and wants an over-and-back call.

I wasn't even thinking backcourt violation because the ballhandler maintained at least one point in the backcourt.

B's coach is saying there was a rule change this year that the ballhandler didn't have to have all 3 points over.

I just checked the Federation site and looked at the rules changes for 2007-2008 and I don't see anything close to that.

Did I miss something?

Yes, you listened to a coach.