The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 07:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 13
Backcourt violation rule change? (over and back)

NFHS--Yesterday, we had a girl dribbling up the sideline in the backcourt. A couple of feet before she gets to half-court, she jump stops, then pivots so that one foot crosses the half-court line. So she still has 1-2 points in the backcourt (as she's pivoting, the ball may have crossed or it may not have--I was paying more attention to the pivot foot and the action around the ball handler as she was being trapped).

As the ball handler pivots back to being completely in the back court (all 3 points), B's coach goes nuts and wants an over-and-back call.


I wasn't even thinking backcourt violation because the ballhandler maintained at least one point in the backcourt.

B's coach is saying there was a rule change this year that the ballhandler didn't have to have all 3 points over.


I just checked the Federation site and looked at the rules changes for 2007-2008 and I don't see anything close to that.

Did I miss something?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 07:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 712
If I only had a BRAIN!

The only thing that was missing was the coach's brain.
Did he look like a scarecrow?
Was he from Kansas?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 07:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,487
You made the right call, but for the wrong reason.
Once the player picks up the ball and ceases to be a dribbler, the three points principle no longer applies. That rule is only for a player who is dribbling the ball. BTW it has not changed.

The relevant rules for this play are the ones governing ball and player location. The player location rule is 4-35. Articles 1 and 2 state that if the player is touching the floor in the backcourt, then that player is in the backcourt. When this is combined with 4-4-1, the appropriate ball location rule, it becomes clear that the ball and player remained in the backcourt during the entire play. Therefore, no violation of 9-9, the backcourt rule, could have taken place.

PS The 10-second count should continue.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 08:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by HL Clippenchain
NFHS--Yesterday, we had a girl dribbling up the sideline in the backcourt. A couple of feet before she gets to half-court, she jump stops, then pivots so that one foot crosses the half-court line. So she still has 1-2 points in the backcourt (as she's pivoting, the ball may have crossed or it may not have--I was paying more attention to the pivot foot and the action around the ball handler as she was being trapped).

As the ball handler pivots back to being completely in the back court (all 3 points), B's coach goes nuts and wants an over-and-back call.


I wasn't even thinking backcourt violation because the ballhandler maintained at least one point in the backcourt.

B's coach is saying there was a rule change this year that the ballhandler didn't have to have all 3 points over.


I just checked the Federation site and looked at the rules changes for 2007-2008 and I don't see anything close to that.

Did I miss something?
Yes, you listened to a coach.
__________________
I only wanna know ...
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 08:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tidewater Virginia
Posts: 252
If the player jump-stopped by picking up her dribble, jumping off one foot and landing on two, and then pivots - I have a travel.
__________________
Failure is fertile ground on which to plant new seeds.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 08:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 13
Backcourt violation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjo
If the player jump-stopped by picking up her dribble, jumping off one foot and landing on two, and then pivots - I have a travel.
Thanks for responding. The jump stop was fine, though, and the pivot was fine. The only issue at hand is the backcourt situation.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 08:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Marshall, MI
Posts: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by HL Clippenchain
Thanks for responding. The jump stop was fine, though, and the pivot was fine. The only issue at hand is the backcourt situation.
No, if she jump stopped and pivoted it is a travel. It is not fine.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 08:52am
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby
No, if she jump stopped and pivoted it is a travel. It is not fine.
As always, your statement depends on the definition of "jump stop". If she jumped, caught the ball (ending her dribble) and landed on two feet -- one type of jump stop -- and then pivoted, that's perfectly legal.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 08:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjo
If the player jump-stopped by picking up her dribble, jumping off one foot and landing on two, and then pivots - I have a travel.

That's what i have if I understand this correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 09:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tidewater Virginia
Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby
No, if she jump stopped and pivoted it is a travel. It is not fine.
See casebook play 4.44.2 SITUATION A
__________________
Failure is fertile ground on which to plant new seeds.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 09:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby
No, if she jump stopped and pivoted it is a travel. It is not fine.
And where do I find this "jump stop" definition in the rule book?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 09:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Marshall, MI
Posts: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
As always, your statement depends on the definition of "jump stop". If she jumped, caught the ball (ending her dribble) and landed on two feet -- one type of jump stop -- and then pivoted, that's perfectly legal.
A jump stop is defined by the rule book, it is not my definition or yours. If you mean something else, other than a jump stop, use another term. That is like says it depends on what you mean by a dribble.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 09:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby
A jump stop is defined by the rule book, it is not my definition or yours. If you mean something else, other than a jump stop, use another term. That is like says it depends on what you mean by a dribble.
I could be wrong but I do not think the term "jump stop" even appears in the fed book.

Take a look at fed 4-44-2, note the difference between a1 and b2.

Look at ncaa 4-44 for a much clearer version.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 09:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby
A jump stop is defined by the rule book, it is not my definition or yours. If you mean something else, other than a jump stop, use another term. That is like says it depends on what you mean by a dribble.
Then over the back is "defined by" the rule book also. It's when B1 jumps out of his circle of verticallity and pushes A1 from behind.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 10:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 208
zoiks!! in a girls game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
PS The 10-second count should continue.
Maybe we start a closely guarded count...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Backcourt violation? vawils Basketball 23 Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:52am
Backcourt Violation Derrick Basketball 3 Thu Oct 19, 2006 03:39pm
Backcourt violation? ChuckElias Basketball 63 Tue Oct 10, 2006 01:36pm
Backcourt violation or not stmaryrams Basketball 8 Wed Dec 21, 2005 07:32pm
Backcourt Violation SteveF Basketball 11 Wed Jan 14, 2004 01:00pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:44pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1