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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 10:59am
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Lebron pass to himself Game 4 NBA Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTLZmyjzPnY

I would like to understand why that isn't double dribble.

Dribble along court, jump with 2 hands on the ball , then pass to self of the backboard . He placed 2 hands on the ball then 1 hand under the ball for a noticeable time before lob passing to himself.

Why isnt the first dribble considered over when he put 2 hands on the ball or when he puts his right hand under the ball to carry before lob pass ?


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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 12:00pm
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You can rule that player and team control ended when Lebron threw it against the backboard, if you interpret the throw as a Try. That would allow him to run up to it and rebound it and shoot or dribble again. Clearly, this wasn't a Try, however...

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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 12:16pm
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Other codes (more-or-less) explicitly allow the offense to use the offensive backboard as part of this play. It's not a "pass to one's self" (which, by definition, is impossible) and it's not a dribbling violation.

I assume the NBA rules have the same general concept.
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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 03:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbilica View Post
You can rule that player and team control ended when Lebron threw it against the backboard, if you interpret the throw as a Try. That would allow him to run up to it and rebound it and shoot or dribble again. Clearly, this wasn't a Try, however...

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Ok I think we agree he was not attempting a shot. Therefore....
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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 03:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Other codes (more-or-less) explicitly allow the offense to use the offensive backboard as part of this play. It's not a "pass to one's self" (which, by definition, is impossible) and it's not a dribbling violation.

I assume the NBA rules have the same general concept.
Ok lets agree that there is no pass to one's self. I'll just refer to that as a dribble.
So did the first dribble end or did the dribble just continue after he placed 2 hands on the ball then placed his right hand under the ball. Why does being in the air change that ? Why is that not double dribble ?
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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 03:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soadyp View Post
Ok lets agree that there is no pass to one's self. I'll just refer to that as a dribble.
So did the first dribble end or did the dribble just continue after he placed 2 hands on the ball then placed his right hand under the ball. Why does being in the air change that ? Why is that not double dribble ?
Being in the air doesn't change anything. Throwing the ball off the offense's backboard does.

It's not a particularly unusual play -- if it was illegal, it would have been called.
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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 04:27pm
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Nfhs ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Being in the air doesn't change anything. Throwing the ball off the offense's backboard does. It's not a particularly unusual play -- if it was illegal, it would have been called.
Legal, or illegal, for NFHS rules, when the official is 100% sure that it wasn't a try?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jun 18, 2017 at 07:26pm.
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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 04:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Legal, or illegal, for NFHS rules (when the official is 100% sure that it wasn't a try?
Legal in NFHS. Give the benefit of the doubt to the offense if unsure on whether or not it is a Try.

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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 05:02pm
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NFHS Rule 4-15-1: "... It is not part of a dribble when a ball touches a player's own backboard."

So it's legal in high school and below, and the NBA is more permissive in nearly every conceivable way, so ... LEGAL!
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Old Sun Jun 18, 2017, 07:25pm
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Traveling ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
NFHS Rule 4-15-1: "... It is not part of a dribble when a ball touches a player's own backboard."
I agree that it isn't part of an illegal dribble (double dribble), but can it be considered traveling (movement of the pivot foot in excess of legal limits) when the official is 100% sure that it wasn't a try?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jun 18, 2017 at 11:08pm.
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Old Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:09am
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For NFHS there is a specific Case Book ruling that throwing the ball off the offensive backboard and getting it is perfectly legal.

Last edited by Nevadaref; Mon Jun 19, 2017 at 01:30am.
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Old Mon Jun 19, 2017, 12:37am
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Here is that NFHS caseplay:

Quote:
4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.
There is also this other caseplay that I think is related.
Quote:
4.44 SITUATION B: A1 attempts a try after ending the dribble. The try does not touch the backboard, the ring or any other player. A1 runs and is able to catch the ball before it strikes the floor. Is this traveling? RULING: No. When A1 recovered his/her own try, A1 could either dribble, pass or try again. There was no team control after the ball was released on a try. (4-12; 4-41)
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Last edited by Mbilica; Mon Jun 19, 2017 at 12:43am.
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Old Mon Jun 19, 2017, 01:30am
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Nope, it's 9.5
Whether the action is a try or not isn't a factor.
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Old Mon Jun 19, 2017, 06:33am
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"Equipment" ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
For NFHS there is a specific Case Book ruling that throwing the ball off the offensive backboard and getting it is perfectly legal.
Nice citation Nevadaref. Thanks.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used.

Now, what would happen if, instead of catching the ball in the air and shooting (dunking) the ball, he came down with the ball (there's no indication in the caseplay that A1 moved his feet, or didn't move his feet, while the ball was in the air on its way to the backboard), and then decided to start a new dribble when the official is 100% sure that it wasn't a try?

This caseplay answers one specific question (it's not an illegal (double) dribble), but leaves a lots of questions (is it a travel), with corresponding rule citations, unanswered. Was A1 allowed to move his feet? Was A1 allowed to start a new dribble?

I know that there are no self passes in NFHS rules, but this really is a case of a self pass, with one very specific legal situation described in the caseplay.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jun 19, 2017 at 03:55pm.
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Old Mon Jun 19, 2017, 08:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Now, what would happen if, instead of catching the ball in the air and shooting (dunking) the ball, he came down with the ball (there's no indication in the caseplay that A1 moved his feet, or didn't move his feet, while the ball was in the air on its way to the backboard), and then decided to start a new dribble when the official is 100% sure that it wasn't a try?
The same answer you got when you've asked this the other 200 times. It would be better if you took this up with IAABO or the FED rules committee instead of continually posting it here.
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