Lebron pass to himself Game 4 NBA Finals

[soadyp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTLZmyjzPnY

I would like to understand why that isn't double dribble.

Dribble along court, jump with 2 hands on the ball , then pass to self of the backboard . He placed 2 hands on the ball then 1 hand under the ball for a noticeable time before lob passing to himself.

Why isnt the first dribble considered over when he put 2 hands on the ball or when he puts his right hand under the ball to carry before lob pass ?


NBA.com - RULE NO. 4-DEFINITIONS

[Mbilica]

You can rule that player and team control ended when Lebron threw it against the backboard, if you interpret the throw as a Try. That would allow him to run up to it and rebound it and shoot or dribble again. Clearly, this wasn't a Try, however...

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[bob jenkins]

Other codes (more-or-less) explicitly allow the offense to use the offensive backboard as part of this play. It's not a "pass to one's self" (which, by definition, is impossible) and it's not a dribbling violation.

I assume the NBA rules have the same general concept.

[soadyp]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Other codes (more-or-less) explicitly allow the offense to use the offensive backboard as part of this play. It's not a "pass to one's self" (which, by definition, is impossible) and it's not a dribbling violation.

I assume the NBA rules have the same general concept.

Ok lets agree that there is no pass to one's self. I'll just refer to that as a dribble.
So did the first dribble end or did the dribble just continue after he placed 2 hands on the ball then placed his right hand under the ball. Why does being in the air change that ? Why is that not double dribble ?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by soadyp

Ok lets agree that there is no pass to one's self. I'll just refer to that as a dribble.
So did the first dribble end or did the dribble just continue after he placed 2 hands on the ball then placed his right hand under the ball. Why does being in the air change that ? Why is that not double dribble ?

Being in the air doesn't change anything. Throwing the ball off the offense's backboard does.

It's not a particularly unusual play -- if it was illegal, it would have been called.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Being in the air doesn't change anything. Throwing the ball off the offense's backboard does. It's not a particularly unusual play -- if it was illegal, it would have been called.

Legal, or illegal, for NFHS rules, when the official is 100% sure that it wasn't a try?

[soadyp]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

You can rule that player and team control ended when Lebron threw it against the backboard, if you interpret the throw as a Try. That would allow him to run up to it and rebound it and shoot or dribble again. Clearly, this wasn't a Try, however...

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Ok I think we agree he was not attempting a shot. Therefore....

[Mbilica]

Here is that NFHS caseplay:

4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

There is also this other caseplay that I think is related.

4.44 SITUATION B: A1 attempts a try after ending the dribble. The try does not touch the backboard, the ring or any other player. A1 runs and is able to catch the ball before it strikes the floor. Is this traveling? RULING: No. When A1 recovered his/her own try, A1 could either dribble, pass or try again. There was no team control after the ball was released on a try. (4-12; 4-41)

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[Nevadaref]

Nope, it's 9.5
Whether the action is a try or not isn't a factor.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For NFHS there is a specific Case Book ruling that throwing the ball off the offensive backboard and getting it is perfectly legal.

Nice citation Nevadaref. Thanks.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used.

Now, what would happen if, instead of catching the ball in the air and shooting (dunking) the ball, he came down with the ball (there's no indication in the caseplay that A1 moved his feet, or didn't move his feet, while the ball was in the air on its way to the backboard), and then decided to start a new dribble when the official is 100% sure that it wasn't a try?

This caseplay answers one specific question (it's not an illegal (double) dribble), but leaves a lots of questions (is it a travel), with corresponding rule citations, unanswered. Was A1 allowed to move his feet? Was A1 allowed to start a new dribble?

I know that there are no self passes in NFHS rules, but this really is a case of a self pass, with one very specific legal situation described in the caseplay.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Now, what would happen if, instead of catching the ball in the air and shooting (dunking) the ball, he came down with the ball (there's no indication in the caseplay that A1 moved his feet, or didn't move his feet, while the ball was in the air on its way to the backboard), and then decided to start a new dribble when the official is 100% sure that it wasn't a try?

The same answer you got when you've asked this the other 200 times. It would be better if you took this up with IAABO or the FED rules committee instead of continually posting it here.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It would be better if you took this up with IAABO or the FED rules committee instead of continually posting it here.

IAABO doesn't deal with rules (he said tongue in cheek).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The same answer you got when you've asked this the other 200 times.

I bring this up again, and again if necessary, so that Forum members, especially new Forum members, don't walk away believing that a definite NFHS rule interpretation has been officially stated for this (off the backboard dunk), and similar situations (off the backboard, maybe move feet, catch, maybe start a new dribble). With the exception of the very specific situation (can't call illegal (double) dribble) described in 9.5 SITUATION, everything else boils down to opinions, in some cases informed, rational opinions, but nevertheless, still just opinions.

Of course, the easy way out to this is to just call every such act such as this a try, but we really know that in rare cases it really isn't a try, and it may be readily apparent to an observer (official) that it really isn't a try.