NFHS 2017-18 Rules Changes

[SC Official]

I honestly can't see why or how anyone would be upset with extending the box. We have so much administrative nonsense that the NFHS requires us to deal with, and this is making our job easier. The only thing different for me is that now the coach can come down to the end line and chew my ass when I'm at L and I can't penalize him for being outside the box, but I can now officially warn or perhaps even whack him for his behavior.

Comparing sports is apples-to-oranges, as JRut noted.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

I agree completely, and I think it's yet anothertrickle-down from college. Coaches are the most important personalities in college basketball because their year-to-year presence provides the continuity needed by the big dollar TV contracts. Players turn over in one to three years so coaching personality is the only consistent factor in the college game and is the major way in which the game ismarketed. (sure, there are exceptions, such as the tournament Cinderella teams that emerge every late March)

Yes, coaches in all sports provide direction, but in no other sport do we see coaches hollering instructions virtually every second of every game. Extending the coaching box is more than a policing issue, it shows an unfortunate NFHS buy-in to the marketing of coaches and the continued diminution of what should be its core goal of letting the kids play. We don't allow coaches to stand at second base, or on the blue line, or next to to the umpire during a goal-line stand, why is it OK for them to wander all the way down the court.

The excuse given, that smaller box serves to "limit the level of communication between coach and players" shows this rule change to be a solution in search of a problem.

Baseball has coaches at 1st and 3rd base. The manager/HC can actually come out to the mound and talk to the pitcher. Football coaches are allowed to go 20 yards on either sided of the 50 yard line.

Basketball coaches are not even allowed to half court, nor are they allowed to even come out on to the court during time-outs. They don't get to go out to the free throw line and settle down a player.

Your comparisons are not making much sense in this context.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Baseball has coaches at 1st and 3rd base. The manager/HC can actually come out to the mound and talk to the pitcher. Football coaches are allowed to go 20 yards on either sided of the 50 yard line.

Basketball coaches are not even allowed to half court, nor are they allowed to even come out on to the court during time-outs. They don't get to go out to the free throw line and settle down a player.

Your comparisons are not making much sense in this context.

Also in football a coach and come out to the middle of the field during the timeout if they choose.

Again I like the change because even if I am the Lead and the coach comes to me, I can say something back to him without likely having to yell. Why is this any different than when the coach comes to me in the Center position?

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Baseball has coaches at 1st and 3rd base. The manager/HC can actually come out to the mound and talk to the pitcher. Football coaches are allowed to go 20 yards on either sided of the 50 yard line.

Basketball coaches are not even allowed to half court, nor are they allowed to even come out on to the court during time-outs. They don't get to go out to the free throw line and settle down a player.

Your comparisons are not making much sense in this context.

I still run into officials who think coaches should be glued to the benches.

[Freddy]

Just out today:

Likely Phraseology of the New Rules: http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-...anges-2017-18/

Comments on the Rules: http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-...rules-2017-18/

POE's: http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-...hasis-2017-18/

Two-Hand Foul Reporting:http://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-...oul-reporting/

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I honestly can't see why or how anyone would be upset with extending the box. We have so much administrative nonsense that the NFHS requires us to deal with, and this is making our job easier. The only thing different for me is that now the coach can come down to the end line and chew my ass when I'm at L and I can't penalize him for being outside the box, but I can now officially warn or perhaps even whack him for his behavior.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again I like the change because even if I am the Lead and the coach comes to me, I can say something back to him without likely having to yell.

Agree, and agree again. I welcome the change. And I started officiating when coaches were seatbelted for 99% of the game.

[JRutledge]

Two-Hand Reporting

Peace

[BryanV21]

NFHS is trying to market their coaches like in college? Seriously?

How many college basketball coaches can you name? I'm pretty darn sure it's a tiny fraction of the 351 head coaches for division 1 teams (assuming each school has a head coach under contract at this time).

I've been officiating for 9 years now in and around Columbus, OH? You know how many coaches I can name? None. To be fair I'm not from Columbus, or even Ohio. I'm from central New York. However, when I was still playing in high school, do you know how many basketball coaches I could name in the league I played in? 1... mine.

Marketing in college is about the school... not any individual. A school may use certain individuals in marketing, but as time goes on it's the individual schools that fans relate to and continue with... not any one person.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

NFHS is trying to market their coaches like in college? Seriously?

How many college basketball coaches can you name? I'm pretty darn sure it's a tiny fraction of the 351 head coaches for division 1 teams (assuming each school has a head coach under contract at this time).

Market them? Market them how? What am I missing here? And yes I can name many coaches at the top level in most major conferences. Or I can name a coach and where he used to coach after he was fired or jumped to another level or position. If you follow Men's college basketball, it is rare that I do not know something about the coaches in the Final Four. Been watching Mark Few for years and of course remember Roy Williams from Kansas and now North Carolina. I only mention that because in my state where we have over 800 schools total I do remember or know of many of the more successful coaches by name and know something about their programs or success, the same way I do for college on a different scale.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I've been officiating for 9 years now in and around Columbus, OH? You know how many coaches I can name? None. To be fair I'm not from Columbus, or even Ohio. I'm from central New York. However, when I was still playing in high school, do you know how many basketball coaches I could name in the league I played in? 1... mine.

Well I have been doing this for over 20 and it is rare that I work a game that I have not seen the coach or know the coach. Even in the playoffs I have had coaches often that I have had at some point during the my career like today where I worked some summer games and two of the coaches I have had before during regular season games and summer games.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Marketing in college is about the school... not any individual. A school may use certain individuals in marketing, but as time goes on it's the individual schools that fans relate to and continue with... not any one person.

OK, I am still a little lost on your point. If we are talking about the coaching box, I do not know what that has to do with any marketing?

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Market them? Market them how? What am I missing here? And yes I can name many coaches at the top level in most major conferences. Or I can name a coach and where he used to coach after he was fired or jumped to another level or position. If you follow Men's college basketball, it is rare that I do not know something about the coaches in the Final Four. Been watching Mark Few for years and of course remember Roy Williams from Kansas and now North Carolina. I only mention that because in my state where we have over 800 schools total I do remember or know of many of the more successful coaches by name and know something about their programs or success, the same way I do for college on a different scale.



Well I have been doing this for over 20 and it is rare that I work a game that I have not seen the coach or know the coach. Even in the playoffs I have had coaches often that I have had at some point during the my career like today where I worked some summer games and two of the coaches I have had before during regular season games and summer games.



OK, I am still a little lost on your point. If we are talking about the coaching box, I do not know what that has to do with any marketing?

Peace

I mistakenly responded to amusedofficial's post without quoting him.

I know other officials know coach's names, and there are people much more knowledgeable than me when it comes to coaches in the NCAA, but I do not agree that coaches are used for marketing... outside of a few schools like Syracuse, North Carolina, and Duke. Same as in high school.

BTW, there was one coach who retired recently that was well known around these parts, however I can only remember him by his nickname.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I mistakenly responded to amusedofficial's post without quoting him.

I know other officials know coach's names, and there are people much more knowledgeable than me when it comes to coaches in the NCAA, but I do not agree that coaches are used for marketing... outside of a few schools like Syracuse, North Carolina, and Duke. Same as in high school.

BTW, there was one coach who retired recently that was well known around these parts, however I can only remember him by his nickname.

I'm like you when it comes to coaches, I know only a few by name. I'm not from where I live, the military brought me here. I went to a college camp this weekend with 4 guys from my HS board and I didn't know any of the folks they were talking about, players and coaches. And really, I don't care if I ever get to know any of the coaches.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I mistakenly responded to amusedofficial's post without quoting him.

I know other officials know coach's names, and there are people much more knowledgeable than me when it comes to coaches in the NCAA, but I do not agree that coaches are used for marketing... outside of a few schools like Syracuse, North Carolina, and Duke. Same as in high school.

BTW, there was one coach who retired recently that was well known around these parts, however I can only remember him by his nickname.

All I am saying is I am confused with what does knowing coaches names have to do with the rules changes? If you know them or do not know them is not relevant to anything we are discussing honestly. I know coaches names but that is because you see guys come and go from one place to another. Heck most coaches are long gone from the time you see them anyway. I do not really understand why anything we really do is about them. The only thing that seems to matter in rules changes are that coaches have more influence on the rules changes than officials do.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All I am saying is I am confused with what does knowing coaches names have to do with the rules changes? If you know them or do not know them is not relevant to anything we are discussing honestly. I know coaches names but that is because you see guys come and go from one place to another. Heck most coaches are long gone from the time you see them anyway. I do not really understand why anything we really do is about them. The only thing that seems to matter in rules changes are that coaches have more influence on the rules changes than officials do.

Peace

I responded to a message claiming the NFHS wants to market coaches like they allegedly do in college ball. My knowledge of coaches at both levels, seeing as how I've officiated at one level for nine years and watched the other level for around 30, is absolutely relevant.

Now, if you don't like the topic of this thread being hijacked, I'm sorry. You'd be right to be upset, as that's not cool. But I find it funny that you've chosen to go after me and not say a word to the person that changed the subject in the first place.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I responded to a message claiming the NFHS wants to market coaches like they allegedly do in college ball. My knowledge of coaches at both levels, seeing as how I've officiated at one level for nine years and watched the other level for around 30, is absolutely relevant.

Now, if you don't like the topic of this thread being hijacked, I'm sorry. You'd be right to be upset, as that's not cool. But I find it funny that you've chosen to go after me and not say a word to the person that changed the subject in the first place.

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I did not make a comment about not liking the thread. Just commenting on your comments. I just did not see why this had anything to do with the rules changes. That is pretty much it. It is not about you personally. It is about the relevance to the bigger picture here.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not make a comment about not liking the thread. Just commenting on your comments. I just did not see why this had anything to do with the rules changes. That is pretty much it. It is not about you personally. It is about the relevance to the bigger picture here.

Peace

I responded to a comment where that information is relevant.

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