Last Night

[SD Referee]

I see the original thread was deleted. That is fine. It just seems like that is an overreaction to peoples opinions, but rules are rules on this board.

Speaking for myself, the plays that I was complaining about seem to be legit plays that need to be talked about.

Is the thread deleted because you don't want ANY official to be criticized or is it because you know the guys and are sticking up for them? I want to make sure that I am clear on the rules and don't break any in the future. This is a fun board to participate on.

I feel that we get better by discussing plays and things we do wrong. I've had plenty of bad nights myself. Talking about the game last night and plays that were clearly called incorrectly will make everybody better. As long as nobody is getting too personal and going over the top, what's the harm? Is it so wrong to complain about last night and to point out that last night wasn't the best officiated game ever?

I'm sorry if anybody is angry, and clearly one or more of the mods didn't like some of the posts, but I think an honest discussion of the game doesn't hurt anybody.

Am I in the minority on this? Thank you in advance for the clarification!

[diehardmason]

The original post was mine. I did not post it to bash any of the officials. It was simply for discussing the issues that were being complained about as I was not in agreement with the article. Sorry if these things shouldn't be posted. My mistake.


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[Adam]

Originally Posted by diehardmason

The original post was mine. I did not post it to bash any of the officials. It was simply for discussing the issues that were being complained about as I was not in agreement with the article. Sorry if these things shouldn't be posted. My mistake.

You were fine. The thread fell apart (in my opinion) after.

[wjc3]

Late in the game a North Carolina player was touching the end line at the same time his hand was on the ball. Should this have been called and Gonzaga awarded the ball?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by wjc3

Late in the game a North Carolina player was touching the ball at the same time his hand was on the ball. Should this have been called and Gonzaga awarded the ball?

Yes.

[Raymond]

If you are going to discuss Flagrant 1 fouls, at least know the rule before saying the officials interjected themselves.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If you are going to discuss Flagrant 1 fouls, at least know the rule before saying the officials interjected themselves.

I would like to think I know the rule pretty well. Maybe I don't as I'm not a D1 official. Every time a flagrant is called, they put the rules on the screen on TV. If you want to go to the letter of the law, fine, call it. As we all know, you don't always officiate to the letter of the law/rule book and judgment comes into play. Sorry, I disagree with last night's flagrant ruling.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

I would like to think I know the rule pretty well. Maybe I don't as I'm not a D1 official. Every time a flagrant is called, they put the rules on the screen on TV. If you want to go to the letter of the law, fine, call it. As we all know, you don't always officiate to the letter of the law/rule book and judgment comes into play. Sorry, I disagree with last night's flagrant ruling.

I don't let shots to the neck or face go unpunished. Doesn't matter if it was unintentional, most fouls are unintentional. We call fouls when someone accidentally shoves someone for a rebound or accidentally hits the shooter's arm, so why wouldn't we call a foul when someone accidentally grabs someone's face or neck?

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't let shots to the neck or face go unpunished. Doesn't matter if it was unintentional, most fouls are unintentional. We call fouls when someone accidentally shoves someone for a rebound or accidentally hits the shooter's arm, so why wouldn't we call a foul when someone accidentally grabs someone's face or neck?

That was very light contact on the face. I just don't think it was worthy of a Flagrant 1.

You call ALL contact to the neck and face as fouls or flagrants? I don't agree with that line of thinking.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

That was very light contact on the face. I just don't think it was worthy of a Flagrant 1.

You call ALL contact to the neck and face as fouls or flagrants? I don't agree with that line of thinking.

I think you need to look at the play again. He grabbed Berry's neck.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't let shots to the neck or face go unpunished. Doesn't matter if it was unintentional, most fouls are unintentional.

Saw one of my friends, a veteran, highly regarded, official, work a state tournament quarterfinal game. As a defender was reaching out to size up the opponent point guard, the defender accidentally brushed a few fingers across the point guards face. A split second went by (cue crickets). Point guard puts her hand up to her eye that was accidentally poked, in obvious pain. Only then came the whistle for the foul. I asked my friend about it afterward. He admitted that, at first, he was going to pass on the play as incidental contact, until he saw that the point guard was in pain. An advantage was certainly gained in that situation. Accidental and incidental don't mean the same thing.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Saw one of my friends, a veteran, highly regarded, official, work a state tournament quarterfinal game. As a defender was reaching out to size up the opponent point guard, the defender accidentally brushed a few fingers across the point guards face. A split second went by (cue crickets). Point guard puts her hand up to her eye that was accidentally poked, in obvious pain. Only then came the whistle for the foul. I asked my friend about it afterward. He admitted that, at first, he was going to pass on the play as incidental contact, until he saw that the point guard was in pain. An advantage was certainly gained in that situation. Accidental and incidental don't mean the same thing.

Your post is valid, but not similar to the play in question. The ball was dead when the contact in question occurred. No one was put at a disadvantage.

The rule is what it is, and I suppose it was properly enforced here, but in my opinion the rule was written more with aggressive elbow type action in mind, as opposed to the reactive, reflexive grab we saw here.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Saw one of my friends, a veteran, highly regarded, official, work a state tournament quarterfinal game. As a defender was reaching out to size up the opponent point guard, the defender accidentally brushed a few fingers across the point guards face. A split second went by (cue crickets). Point guard puts her hand up to her eye that was accidentally poked, in obvious pain. Only then came the whistle for the foul. I asked my friend about it afterward. He admitted that, at first, he was going to pass on the play as incidental contact, until he saw that the point guard was in pain. An advantage was certainly gained in that situation. Accidental and incidental don't mean the same thing.

True, and I've handled that situation the exact same way. However, I've also seen an official just halt play for an injury stoppage without assessing a foul. In his mind the contact remained incidental and unworthy of a foul despite the injury. I think that this could be a reasonable debate, if people wish to discuss it.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

....so why wouldn't we call a foul when someone accidentally grabs someone's face or neck?

Seems like an oxymoron to me. Accidentally hit a face/neck? Yes, it is possible. Grab someone's face/neck? Must be intentional.

Maybe I am getting caught in semantics but just my opinion if going by literal words.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bucky

Seems like an oxymoron to me. Accidentally hit a face/neck? Yes, it is possible. Grab someone's face/neck? Must be intentional.

Maybe I am getting caught in semantics but just my opinion if going by literal words.

Don't overthink it. Just like in any other situation, on or off the court. You reach out to grab something, miss, and accidentally grab the wrong thing.