Last Night

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

....so why wouldn't we call a foul when someone accidentally grabs someone's face or neck?

Seems like an oxymoron to me. Accidentally hit a face/neck? Yes, it is possible. Grab someone's face/neck? Must be intentional.

Maybe I am getting caught in semantics but just my opinion if going by literal words.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bucky

Seems like an oxymoron to me. Accidentally hit a face/neck? Yes, it is possible. Grab someone's face/neck? Must be intentional.

Maybe I am getting caught in semantics but just my opinion if going by literal words.

Don't overthink it. Just like in any other situation, on or off the court. You reach out to grab something, miss, and accidentally grab the wrong thing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bucky

Seems like an oxymoron to me. Accidentally hit a face/neck? Yes, it is possible. Grab someone's face/neck? Must be intentional.

Maybe I am getting caught in semantics but just my opinion if going by literal words.

So is every hold an intentional foul?

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Adam

So is every hold an intentional foul?

Yes, presuming by "hold" you mean involving a grab.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

So is every hold an intentional foul?

Originally Posted by bucky

Yes, presuming by "hold" you mean involving a grab.

You really believe every hold is intentional? So every time you blow your whistle for a hold you rule it an intentional foul?

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You really believe every hold is intentional? So every time you blow your whistle for a hold you rule it an intentional foul?

If the hold involved a grab, then yes.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bucky

If the hold involved a grab, then yes.

Instead of a graphic i'll just type it out

facepalm

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

Instead of a graphic i'll just type it out

facepalm

You're too kind.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bucky

If the hold involved a grab, then yes.

What's the difference between a hold and a grab? It seems you're trying to make a distinction here.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Adam

What's the difference between a hold and a grab? It seems you're trying to make a distinction here.

That is what I was thinking about your line of questioning, that you are trying to make some distinction. Not sure where you are going with it.

Anyway...

Yes, there is a distinction imo. I grab is a conscious closing of the hand around something, like a wrist, jersey, etc. It can't be accidental. Are all holds grabs? No. Are all grabs hold? Yes. Some holds are too difficult to consider intentional. If someone grabs a jersey though, then it seems obvious, not only what they were doing, but also there intent. Looks as if it comes down to semantics again. Shocker.

Just my opinion.

[IncorrectCall]

Originally Posted by bucky

If the hold involved a grab, then yes.

These are different things?

[MD Longhorn]

I hate to defend this ... as it's ridiculous, but you can have a hold (in basketball) without the player grasping with his fingers, can't you? Wouldn't putting your arms out and preventing a player from going past you be considered a hold ... without it being "grabbing"?

(I would note than in neither case ... grasping or not grasping, I would never call a normal hold as an intentional foul, as bucky suggests).