NCAA Tournament (Elite 8 Games) Video Requests - Saturday and Sunday

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bucky

There are also cases (one previously mentioned) that support all of this.

Please point us to these cases.

A2 ... heaves the ball down court... You go on to say that since there were no teammates in the vicinity of the ball, it had to have been a dribble by definition,

This is not an extreme example... it's a false example. Go re-read the definition of DRIBBLE and explain how throwing the ball in this manner could possibly be construed as directing the ball toward the ground.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Please point us to these cases.
.

4.15.4C, 4.44.3(A), 9.5 all mention A1 being first to touch ball…
As Billy said, we have been down this road before. I have reconciled it by saying if what the player does looks and is a "dribble"…a straight push down of the ball right next to him…then I don't have to wait to see if he touches it first. That was a "dribble' that ive seen 8 gabillion times before. violation.

However, there are times when I do have to wait to see what happens next, who touches it, to determine if something was a dribble. I do not and never agree that you always determine dribble or pass at the moment something leaves players hand. Example, I end a dribble. Toss the ball toward Camron. It bounces but then he runs away. I then go touch ball first. That is double dribble because i touched it first. if the ball just sat there it would be nothing.

If I havnt dribbled yet and throw the same pass and then run over to get it it is also a dribble. Just because it was thrown towards Camron doesn't make it a pass by rule. It looked like one out of my hand but it isn't one by rule. I can go recover it legally because it was considered a dribble.

Anyway, i did not watch this video. if a player jumps up and on way down pushes ball straight to floor(a dribble we've all seen forever) i think we can call the violation without him being first to touch. If he simply lets go of the ball i'm going to wait to see what happens next.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

4.15.4C, 4.44.3(A), 9.5 all mention A1 being first to touch ball…

4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball:
(a) against the opponent’s backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an
official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her
own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles
again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the
opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is
first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is
legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore,
A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an
official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and
(c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official
constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it
strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

[BigCat]

Please. Put 4.44.3A(d) up. That's most similar. Thx

[bucky]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

This is not an extreme example... it's a false example. Go re-read the definition of DRIBBLE and explain how throwing the ball in this manner could possibly be construed as directing the ball toward the ground.

Why would I? I did not claim anything, Camron did.

"It is either a dribble the moment it leaves the player's hands or it isn't. Where it goes next really isn't relevant. If it goes to another player, it sometimes just becomes an interrupted dribble. Sometimes, it is unclear whether the player was passing to a nearby player but if there is no teammate in the area where the ball is released, it is, by definition a dribble when the player deliberately releases the ball to the floor and not towards another player. Waiting for another player to come get the ball doesn't make it a pass. If they wanted it to be a pass, they'd throw it towards someone, not to the floor at their feet.

I guarantee that no official on the planet would call a travel for my scenario.