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Old Sat Mar 18, 2017, 01:50am
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Correctable Error in UK vs NKU administered incorrectly

Unless someone else wants to see it, I don't really need to see a video.

Here is the sequence of events (nothing about this is really in question):

1. A foul is called with 12:30 on the clock in the 2nd half.
2. UK is given a throwin for the foul.
3. The throw in is completed and play continues until the horn is sounded at 12:27.
4. The officials whistle the play dead at 12:26.
5. The foul was the 7th foul.
6. The officials have the clock reset to 12:30.
7. The fouled player is awarded the FTs as earned.


There was at least one error but there may have been two errors. I noticed one at the time and noticed what appeared to another when reviewing the NCAA rules to make sure there wasn't a difference I had forgotten about.

The first error I noticed what when they restored the time. In both the NCAA and NFHS, all time consumed between the error and the recognition of the error is lost.

Quote:
Rule 2, Section 12, Art. 4 and Art 5.... a. Points scored, time consumed and additional activity that may occur before the recognition of the error shall not be nullified
The second error was, if I am reading it right, made by the timer in sounding the horn when he/she did. The relevant NCAA rules, as far as I can tell, are:

Quote:
Rule 2, Section 9 (Duties of Scorers), Art. 15. When a correctable error is called to the official scorer’s attention while the game clock is running, the timers shall not use the game-clock horn until the ball has become dead


Rule 2, Section 10 (Duties of Timers), Art. 13. Sound the game-clock horn when the ball has become dead and any of the following have been brought to the scorer’s attention by a head coach or table official (includes an approved standby official):
a. The possibility of a correctable error situation as in Rule 2-12;
But then, it says:

Quote:
Rule 5, Section 11. Stopping Game and Shot Clocks
The game clock and shot clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official
...
Art 5. Responds to the official timer’s signal to grant a head coach’s
request to address the possibility of a correctable error as in Rule 2-12 or to
determine whether a timing, scoring or alternating-possession mistake needs
to be prevented or rectified
So, these two sections seem potentially contradictory. In the first two, it clearly indicates that the scorer and timer are to wait until the ball is dead to sound the horn. But in the last reference, it refers to the official stopping the clock. Unless they are referring to the brief period after a made basket when the ball is dead but the clock is running, there will be no signal for the official to respond to according to the timer/scorer duties.


I've always instructed that the timer/score should sound the horn as soon as a problem is discovered as long as there was no imminent or potentially imminent shot.

Was that also improperly handled or am I misreading the NCAA rule?

If the duties of the scorers/timers are correct, that would allow the team due FTs to score a FG or be fouled again and then get the FTs due from the original foul.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Sat Mar 18, 2017 at 01:54am.
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Old Sat Mar 18, 2017, 07:25am
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I don't know the NCAA rule set so I can't comment about the horn or timer's duties...but my question is: Does the crew get dinged for the clock re-set? This will obviously be a topic of discussion post-game by evaluators. Would the R/crew chief be expected to know that the time should not have been added back ? :04 off the clock hardly qualifies as a significant amount of time but I'd like to know if that would be a factor in getting another assignment deeper in for this crew.
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Old Sat Mar 18, 2017, 11:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra View Post
I don't know the NCAA rule set so I can't comment about the horn or timer's duties...but my question is: Does the crew get dinged for the clock re-set? This will obviously be a topic of discussion post-game by evaluators. Would the R/crew chief be expected to know that the time should not have been added back ? :04 off the clock hardly qualifies as a significant amount of time but I'd like to know if that would be a factor in getting another assignment deeper in for this crew.

While I agree that 4 seconds at 12:30/12:26 is hardly important. The fact that they didn't know the rule is. What if that happened with 0:30/0:26 in a tie game? They need to know how it should be handled.
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Old Sat Mar 18, 2017, 02:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra View Post
I don't know the NCAA rule set so I can't comment about the horn or timer's duties...but my question is: Does the crew get dinged for the clock re-set? This will obviously be a topic of discussion post-game by evaluators. Would the R/crew chief be expected to know that the time should not have been added back ? :04 off the clock hardly qualifies as a significant amount of time but I'd like to know if that would be a factor in getting another assignment deeper in for this crew.
Assignments for the first weekend of games are pre-assigned to the officials and are told if they are staying 1 or 2 days at a site. Of the 7 that are told they are staying for day 2, they will not know if they work one of the round 2 games or are the alternate (sitting at the table) for both of the games until their region of games are finished for the day. A site evaluator/committee gives a recommendation who works the 2nd round. The following day, the 7 officials receive a voicemail about who is working and the alternate.

Of this crew, the "R" and the alternate will likely advance to round 2 (maybe the U1).

Per the NKU Men's Basketball website: Northern Kentucky University Athletics
Officials: Brian O'Connell, Lamar Simpson, Ray Styons

The most interesting thing will be if anyone from this crew (including whoever was the alternate official at the table) advances to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 round. If indeed the crew kicked this adjudication of a Correctable Error, they should not advance IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
While I agree that 4 seconds at 12:30/12:26 is hardly important. The fact that they didn't know the rule is. What if that happened with 0:30/0:26 in a tie game? They need to know how it should be handled.
I agree with this 100%
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Old Sat Mar 18, 2017, 04:35pm
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Correctable Error in UK vs NKU administered incorrectly

Would have been interesting if sometime between #1 and #6 Calipari approached the table to request a timeout for the purpose of addressing a correctable error.

That may have helped everyone, including the crew that kicked the rule (might have woken them up to the correct remedy procedure).

UK assistant coaches did not exactly earn their pay here.


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Old Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Would have been interesting if sometime between #1 and #6 Calipari approached the table to request a timeout for the purpose of addressing a correctable error.

That may have helped everyone, including the crew that kicked the rule (might have woken them up to the correct remedy procedure).

UK assistant coaches did not exactly earn their pay here.


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Maybe they did say something. Hard to know.
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Old Mon Mar 20, 2017, 10:14am
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Video Request

JRut (or anyone else)

Was video of this situation able to be put up for viewing?

Thanks
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Old Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:26am
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Last warning. Next time someone's getting the seat belt.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I can post it soon.

Peace
Thanks, I would really like to see it.

FYI, I've heard that one of the crew members has advanced to the Elite 8 despite this supposed adjudication error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Last warning. Next time someone's getting the seat belt.
Why? Did someone request something wrong here?
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref View Post
Why? Did someone request something wrong here?
No. Just a little mess I already cleaned up.
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