Coaches who are also Officials

[OrStBballRef]

Originally Posted by Rich

No such thing as a late call. Notice he didn't argue the correctness of the call.. Next!

Nope he didn't...sometimes I'll throw out a 'That ### rule must be in rule 11 right coach?" just to see if they really have read the rule book as much as they profess to do

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OrStBballRef

Nope he didn't...sometimes I'll throw out a 'That ### rule must be in rule 11 right coach?" just to see if they really have read the rule book as much as they profess to do

When I get persistent chirping about a rule, I flat out tell the coach that I know the rule book better than he does.

[jpgc99]

In a setting like you've described, I typically have a shorter rope when the coach makes a point to tell me that he is an official or used to be an official.

If he's an official, he should already understand how to respectfully approach me to ask a question.

I'm not giving him any benefit of the doubt when there is poor behavior. Because he should already know what is coming.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OrStBballRef

Was doing a VB game this year and home team coach does officiate some on the weekend (kids/travel/high school rec stuff)...

1Q my first whistle of the game was on a drive originating from the C....I'm the lead see the contact, give partner first crack and then I put a whistle on it. It was late, probably later than it should have been, but it was the right call.

I go over the report and coach isn't pleased. I admit it was late, but it was the right call. Coach then proceeds to explain "I ref and the rule book says you don't call a foul that late."

I'm of the school that if you officiate, especially at a high level, you should know better than bark and chirp at an official as it can be a difficult game to call. However, thinking a coaches mindset will change because they officiate sometimes doesn't change the end result of their behavior....

What I'd want to say, "Coach, you throw a garbage rule like that at me again and I'll call a technical foul."

What I'd actually do is ignore him and tune him out. If he gets my attention again, it had better be for a timeout.

[RedAndWhiteRef]

Originally Posted by Adam

What I'd want to say, "Coach, you throw a garbage rule like that at me again and I'll call a technical foul."

What I'd actually do is ignore him and tune him out. If he gets my attention again, it had better be for a timeout.

Any time a coach starts a sentence or a phrase with "You..." it will never end well. These are borderline automatic warnings, if not T's, for me.

Had a game this season where a coach said "You can't call the armbar if..." I tuned him out after that and said that's enough. He didn't shut up. Whack.

Some coaches, officials or otherwise, just don't get it and this is the only way they'll learn.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Just wondering if my experience with coaches who are also officials is typical.

Just finished my 2nd year. In my 2nd Varsity game, one head coach had been my partner for 4 MS travel games. Before the game he told me that his girls are aggressive, and when they drive the lane and there is contact, he wants the foul called.

One follow up question: were you talking to him alone, or was the other coach present? Pregame, I never recommend having a conversation with either coach when the other isn't present. Other than my pregame coach's meeting, I don't say anything to coaches before tipoff.

[ChuckS]

It was during pre-game observations. I was at the division line, partner had gone to the table. The coach approached me - nobody else present.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

It was during pre-game observations. I was at the division line, partner had gone to the table. The coach approached me - nobody else present.

Don't let that happen in the future.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

It was during pre-game observations. I was at the division line, partner had gone to the table. The coach approached me - nobody else present.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Don't let that happen in the future.

The Texan is right. As soon as he starts talking about how his players play, stop him and start walking towards the other coach. "Coach, any conversation we have is going to involve both of you, let's go get their coach and we can talk."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Adam

The Texan is right.

Yeehaw!

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Adam

The Texan is right. As soon as he starts talking about how his players play, stop him and start walking towards the other coach. "Coach, any conversation we have is going to involve both of you, let's go get their coach and we can talk."

You guys read my mind! I was going to ask what is the best way to prevent it.

[justacoach]

Most unbelievable exhibition of multiple ref-as-a-coach insanity occurred in a travel tournament locally.

One of the groups involved had several teams with dads as coaches. Dad's officiating resumes ranged from NBA finals to high level D1 down to D3.

Each of them let their respective pedigrees be known at some point during games.

I can understand the emotional aspect of coaching your own offspring combined with less than stellar officiating found in travel ball. I have often been in that exact same position.

What I can't countenance is the utter lack of respect, to the point of verbally abuse and hectoring and even profanity directed at youthful officials by these supposed paragons of officiating.

One of the worst displays was during the first 12U girls game, a coach walked onto the court during live play to yell about fouls and grabbed the shoulder of my teen-aged son.

Instinctively my son wheeled around, sounded his whistle and served up a T.

The coach returned to his bench and quietly remarked to me "Your young ref just banged an NBA Finals official"

Now, I want to say I have had coaches try to sell some bodacious wolf tickets but this one took the cake.

Other coaches from his group confirmed he was who he claimed, to my utter surprise. I grabbed my smartphone and found a name that fit the face.

Said coach had the good grace to compliment and apologize to the officials after the game.
We spent the rest of the afternoon discussing the disconnects between FED and NBA rulesets.

I told my #3 son this was a story to regale his grandkids with...sort of like Barney Fife giving a speeding ticket to a Supreme Court judge.

As a whole, every coach in that organization was influenced by the poor example set by their leading lights.

My association made a point to boycott any future tournaments involving this tribe of disrespectful howler monkeys.

Since then I have a very short leash with any coach who mentions his coaching credentials.

Now, whenever my #1 son, who bears a sharp resemblance to his younger brother, runs into NBA finals ref, they share a good laugh with their group.

Wasn't so funny when it actually happened.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I have a slightly different perspective regarding a Head Coach who is also a registered basketball official. So please bear with my comments.

I graduated from high school in 1969 and became an OhioHSAA registered basketball official in 1971. I immediately joined the Trumbull Co. Bkb. Off. Assn. and have been a member of the TCBOA ever since even the four years I attended college in Miami and the two years years I lived in Glendale, California.

My high school basketball coach was an OhioHSAA registered basketball official from 1948 (while he was attending Youngstown State University) until 1971. He was the boys' VAR basketball coach at my high school from 1951 to 1971, during which his teams were state runner-up once, regional champions once, district champions three times, sectional champions 17 times, and league champions 15 times (I played on two of those league and sectional championship teams).

Of all of his players (including his two sons and me) people always picked me to most likely become a basketball coach. And yet I was the only one of all his players that put on the striped shirt. He was a founding member of the TCBOA in 1948 and he was the reason I became a basketball official.

He was always asked why he, a basketball coach, was also a registered basketball official, and his response was always the same: "How can you teach someone how to play the game if you do not know the rules."

His best example of his philosophy was guarding and screening. Three times a season the FR, JV, and VAR teams would practice together and the whole practice was dedicated to learning how to guard and screen per the rule book. If one were to have sat in the stands one would have thought that he was watching a basketball officiating camp. He taught players how to guard and screen right out of the rule book. He would read the pertinent section of the rule book and then have us guard and screen per the rule book.

I can honestly tell people that the guarding and screening rules as well as the traveling rules have not changed for over 50 years because I have been able to literally quote chapter and verse since I was a FR in high school.

We are required to officiate the game as if the players and the coaches know the rules. I have always officiated that way because I had a coach that taught us to know the rules and to play per the rules.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

6th grade travel ball (MAYB) a couple of years ago. First game, I oversaw the replacement of both the dads at the table because they couldn't stop fighting with each other.

Last game, close contested game, and team down by a few late decides to start fouling. Defender walks right up to the kid with the ball, puts two hands in his chest and shoves. Easy X.

After the game (travel league, so my bag was at the table) the coach starts telling me I shouldn't have called that at that point in the game. Some dad walks up, proceeds to tell me he works college ball, and that it was the wrong call.

I tuned them all out at that point, changed my shoes, and walked out. At least that's how I remember it.

[ODog]

ANY time a coach I don't know feels the need to bring up his officiating credentials, it elicits one of two responses from me:

1.) If it's before the game, I nod politely and note him as a potential problem child with a short leash.
2.) If it's in the heat of battle and he begins a sentence with "I'm an official and ..." I stop him right there and say, "I'm sure somebody lets you ref games somewhere, but you're no official."

Anyone in general who claims to be an official (coach, parent, fan) as an opener to arguing with the officials is an embarrassment to the profession and a total clown.