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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 03:57pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
Had a player with a medical device (at least thats what i think it was) and the team had a waiver that stipulated it had to be taped over.

Anyone else, like CJP, is just making excuses. If you don't want to do it, that's fine, I don't care, don't justify it with straw men arguments.
No waiver needed for medical alert or religious medal. Nice strawman though. lol
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:01pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Actually, the rule book does not mention a waiver at all. Nice try though.
3-5-4(e) says headware prohibited. The Exception says state associations "on an individual basis" may allow it for religious reasons...etc
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:04pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
3-5-4(e) says headware prohibited. The Exception says state associations "on an individual basis" may allow it for religious reasons...etc
You are correct.

Last edited by CJP; Wed Mar 15, 2017 at 04:07pm.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:04pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
3-5-4(e) says headware prohibited. The Exception says state associations "on an individual basis" may allow it for religious reasons...etc
A waiver might not be how this is addressed. It is allowed in Illinois I know that for sure. And if we have an issue, we file a Special Report to address the issue. We have had this come up several times over the recent years.

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:09pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
A waiver might not be how this is addressed. It is allowed in Illinois I know that for sure. And if we have an issue, we file a Special Report to address the issue. We have had this come up several times over the recent years.

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That's the way I'd handle it. Headware isn't an advantage. I've never had it down here. I've never seen any announcement on it though from IHSA.

Last edited by BigCat; Wed Mar 15, 2017 at 04:17pm.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:10pm
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Originally Posted by chymechowder View Post
Not to derail, but I saw this today and thought it was related--at least along the garbage lines of suggesting racial bias on the part of the officials:

HIJAB ISSUE IN MARYLAND PLAYOFF GAME

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...=.e5f287fdece4

"But we've done this all year and it's never been a problem" / "That hasn't been called a foul all season" is one of my favorite refrains from coaches.

Hmm, you did successfully derail the thread.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:18pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
No waiver needed for medical alert or religious medal. Nice strawman though. lol
If you are an official I would say your association needs to train you better. I'm guessing you are not. Your reading comprehension is awful. Medical alert is NOT a medical device. Even these need to be taped up.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:42pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Actually, the rule book does not mention a waiver at all. Nice try though.
Not sure why you say this. The book mentions documentation and a waiver is certainly a form of documentation. Documentation can come in many, many different forms. The rule book is certainly not going to list every single piece of form so they use a broad term, "documentation". So, because the specific word "waiver" is not listed, would you accept an email/voice mail/hand-written note/text/etc from the state association? I am guessing that you would but those forms of documentation are not mentioned in the rule book.

(I have indeed used an email on my phone as a form of documentation to show a coach)
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:43pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
If you are an official I would say your association needs to train you better. I'm guessing you are not. Your reading comprehension is awful. Medical alert is NOT a medical device. Even these need to be taped up.
My reading comprehension is awful? You brought up the waiver you were presented and didn't know what it was for.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:43pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
No waiver needed for medical alert or religious medal. Nice strawman though. lol
But tape required, lol.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 04:46pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Originally Posted by bucky View Post
But tape required, lol.
So.. I would not have asked a kid for a waiver for something that just needs to be covered up by tape.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 05:01pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Not sure why you say this. The book mentions documentation and a waiver is certainly a form of documentation. Documentation can come in many, many different forms. The rule book is certainly not going to list every single piece of form so they use a broad term, "documentation". So, because the specific word "waiver" is not listed, would you accept an email/voice mail/hand-written note/text/etc from the state association? I am guessing that you would but those forms of documentation are not mentioned in the rule book.

(I have indeed used an email on my phone as a form of documentation to show a coach)
I am aware of what is not listed. We are to use prudent judgment while applying the rules. I believe that is what the state's position was. I don't judge the officials for making the ruling they did. I am simply saying what I would have done.

I am going to accept the fact that there is an exception to the rule and apply my own common sense that her religion requires her to cover her head. The game was not close and the coach wanted to let her play, so be it. No harm at all.

I am done with the thread. Have a wonderful day.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 05:17pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
So.. I would not have asked a kid for a waiver for something that just needs to be covered up by tape.

Sounds good to me, but I would neither use the word "waiver" nor the word "something". I do not like the use of waiver as it, by definition, relinquishes something. I would use words like "documentation", "approval", "evidence" (words/derivatives in the rule book) or synonyms. Instead of "something", I would use the words used in the rule book, "religious medal", and "medical alert medal".

Don't mean to split hairs and I also totally understand your view. I was moreso making fun of the semantics surrounding the words that we use (I am guilty too) and now I have even taken this thread too far, lol. No worries, no need to reply, and I am done with this thread.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 05:25pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
My reading comprehension is awful? You brought up the waiver you were presented and didn't know what it was for.
Yes, because in 15 years of officiating some details over the years slip my mind. The point was that the team had documentation waiving the expectation of the rule be enforced for this kid, for this reason. They even had a requirement (taped over) that had to be adhered to.

You can argue semantics all you like, but like has been pointed out before, you are just kicking the can down the road for the next official to deal with these types of things. I get really frustrated when I get a game in February and I have to hear from a coach, "Well none of the other officials this year have said anything." Anything sub varsity I wouldn't care, and would just inform the coach/player that they need to adjust for the next level. At the varsity level I care, and not at the level I care for JC/D3.

JC/D3 I apply the letter of law, as written all times, that's the expectation.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 15, 2017, 06:41pm
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Separated the posts w/discussion on hijab into new thread
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