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Everybody here agrees that unless there's something that is not shown in the video, this is NOT an intentional foul -- so what did the officials on the court decide?
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just a hard fall
This play is your garden variety "hard fall with contact" which was caused by the downward counter-force of the defender's blocked shot action on an airborne shooter. We see such defensive plays on a regular basis; I saw no rationale for upgrading to an IF. Also, now, in other instances there is a "hard fall" and no contact on airborne shooter is even made---I have seen this occur when shooters try to make fairly acrobatic moves in the air and fall down hard after the counter-force of the block--I had "nothing" in such cases--despite a body splayed on the floor.
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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From this angle, I don't have anything more than a regular personal foul.
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I agree. Rich i wasn't sure what you meant when you said it couldn't be a jump ball because the ball came out before he hit the floor. If it prevents the shooter from "throwing" the ball or "releasing it on a try" i think the rule says..its a held ball. Just because it came out here before the kid hit the floor doesn't prevent it from being a held ball...
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I would consider a held ball in this play. the fact that the ball came out eventually, just prior to kid hitting floor doesn't mean i won't consider it. once kid is in air I'm looking to see the contact with the ball, how long and the effect it has on the offensive player. The ball coming loose before a player hits the ground has never been a consideration for me. Now, if a kid can only jump 2 inches the contact and ball coming loose before he hits the ground is going to be quick and likely not a held ball. i'll make that judgment up top though not really based on when he hit the floor.
Last edited by BigCat; Fri Feb 17, 2017 at 11:59am. |
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But YMMV. |
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Don't have my book here... but I'm 95% sure that by rule, your statement is incorrect.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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If the defender here got all ball and stayed with it, turning player sideways by getting all ball and then the ball came out at the very end id certainly consider held ball. This player was certainly prevented from throwing the ball and/or releasing it on a try. I might wait on the whistle but my point is that just because the ball comes out eventually just before this kid touches down doesn't mean it can't be a held ball. |
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Also there is a play in the Simplified and Illustrated Book. Also 4.25.2 clearly states what this is as well. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) Last edited by JRutledge; Fri Feb 17, 2017 at 12:06pm. |
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I know what the rules and case plays say -- I also know how this is typically called in practice. This discussion started with this video and someone saying that he'd consider a held ball.
All I was saying is that it's unlikely I'd even consider it if the player had the ball ripped loose or knocked out before he landed. Is this something that's based strictly in the rules or case plays? No, but it's something that I believe is true in practice. If a defender can rip it out before the offensive player lands, I'm likely rewarding that. |
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Sometimes contact can be upgraded based on the severity of the impact on an airborne shooter. If the defender had shown previous reckless behavior, I might. I doubt I would have upgraded this, but the risk is always there when you commit a hard foul on a shooter who is airborne.
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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Quote:
Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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