Hard foul, intentional, flagrant ? (HS)

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Please, help me understand how one "can have contact only with the ball and if excessive, also have an intentional foul."
How does one "excessively contact the ball" and consequently be considered as having committed a foul against his/her opponent?
Basketball Rules Fundamentals 10. "Personal fouls always involve illegal contact . . ."
4-19-1 . . . A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent.
You mention "by rule" and "by case." To which "case" are you referring?

NFHS Case 4.19.3 Sit B: A1 drives to the basket with B1 in pursuit. As A1 begins the act of shooting, B1 gets a hand on the ball from behind and the subsequent contact takes A1 forcefully to the floor and out of bounds."
"RULING: An intentional foul shall be charged when the contact is judged to be excessive, even though the opponent is playing the ball. (4-11) "

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by bucky

NFHS Case 4.19.3 Sit B: A1 drives to the basket with B1 in pursuit. As A1 begins the act of shooting, B1 gets a hand on the ball from behind and the subsequent contact takes A1 forcefully to the floor and out of bounds."
"RULING: An intentional foul shall be charged when the contact is judged to be excessive, even though the opponent is playing the ball. (4-11) "

"the subsequent contact" indicates that subsequent to the opponent getting a hand on the ball, (meaning that after B1 got a hand on the ball) there was contact by B1 with the person of A1, and that contact took A1 forcefully to the floor. The wording does not mean that B1 getting a hand on the ball is considered "contact." If B1's hand on the ball was considered to be the cause of the warranted foul, the word "subsequent" would not be used.
The intended understanding of this Case Book play is that the opponent "playing the ball" does not indemnify the opponent from responsibility for "subsequent contact with the ballhandler," even to the extent that excessive contact, after "playing the ball" may rise to the level of warranting an intentional foul being called.
Simply, and admittedly redundant as it may be, a hand on the ball is not "contact" for the purpose of judging whether a foul is to be assessed, regardless of the force applied by the opponent, to the ball. Only contact with the person of the opponent can be judged to warrant a foul being called.

[BryanV21]

The defender looked to be trying to make a play on the ball, and his follow through after missing the block hit the shooter, causing the shooter to land hard. The defender did not look to be trying to foul, nor do his actions indicate to me he was being overly forceful in taking the shooter down after contact.

Two shots