2 or 3 point field goal?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think it fits it almost perfectly ...

Agree. With emphasis on "almost". The rule is poorly worded.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bucky

Just finished watching Blazing Saddles so I must, I must add my thoughts.

In my judgement, the player is making a pass, not a throw for goal. (Is there anyone who thinks the player is shooting a shot? If the player was fouled would anyone here have them in the act of shooting? And if so, would anyone here give them a chance at a 4-point play? My guess is "no" to all those questions.)

Ergo, Rule 4 Section 41 and Rule 5 Section 2 allow me to judge that 2 points are awarded. If anyone judges that the player was shooting, then obviously award 3 points.

BillyMac, you indicated "Most of us (hopefully, the rule changed from it's original form (had to be a try) when the arc was first painted on the court) are counting a wayward alley oop pass from behind the arc that goes in as three points. If that same alley oop ball touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, or an official, it only counts two points, by rule. But the rule doesn't say anything about the same alley oop pass touching a defender. That only leaves one choice, three points.

It looks as if you accidentally left out a portion of the rule (although you quoted the entire rule correctly in a different post). You appear to be indicating that the rule mentions a teammate but nothing about a defender. Below is the rule and I highlighted some wording that I feel includes a defensive player:

5-2 2 Scoring: Art. 1 A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.

They listed some specific items (floor, teammate, official) but they also have "or any other goal" . Would not the defensive deflection in the OP be part of "any other goal from the field"?

(Maybe I am advocating on your behalf. I do not see how 3 points could ever be awarded in the OP unless someone possibly thought the player was shooting and in that case, I would hate to see their judgement applied to any other part of the game)

Time for bed, I must, I must.

Bucky,
$10 dollar fine for length of post. Pm me and I'll tell u where to send the money.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

$10 dollar fine for length of post. Pm me and I'll tell u where to send the money.

All Forum dues, fees, and fines go to Mark Padgett.

He just sent me a reminder that my $25.00 annual Forum dues must be mailed to him before February 15, 2107. For some reason he will only accept cash, and only unmarked bills. No checks. No credit card.

I'd better get going on this to avoid late fees, like last year. Those stupid late fees will kill you.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

All Forum dues, fees, and fines go to Mark Padgett.

He just sent me a reminder that my $25.00 annual Forum dues must be mailed to him before February 15, 2107. For some reason he will only accept cash, and only unmarked bills. No checks. No credit card.

I'd better get going on this to avoid late fees, like last year. Those stupid late fees will kill you.

With that due date, I would not worry about late fees.

Good call on post duration, my mistake.

"But there is no such language regarding the end of a pass." - I do not think language regarding the end is necessary, based on the definition of a pass: "A pass is movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the ball to another player." Given the definition, sounds to me as if a pass(good or bad) ends when it touches another player or official or out of bounds.

OP was clearly a pass in my judgement, thus deflection into goal results in awarding two points. Now, there are instances where clearly a thrown(not as a shot) ball goes into the goal and I would award 3 points. Two immediate examples are lobs and someone saving the ball from going OOB. Lobs are passes and many times saves are just wild chucks where the player isn't even facing the basket. No player/coach would argue awarding 3 points in those instances but someone would definitely argue awarding 3 points from the play in the OP.

OK, I am done. Gotta go find $10.

[just another ref]

If a try that has no chance to go in has ended, thusly it has no chance to count as three. Ergo a pass that had no chance to go in in the first place, has no chance to be a three.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Ergo a pass that had no chance to go in in the first place, has no chance to be a three.

No chance at all?

A1, from outside the thee point arc throws a cross court pass that hits the hand of defender B1, who is also outside the three point arc. The ball deflects into the basket.

Pass? Yes.

No chance to go in? Yes.

Two points?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No chance at all?

A1, from outside the thee point arc throws a cross court pass that hits the hand of defender B1, who is also outside the three point arc. The ball deflects into the basket.

Pass? Yes.

No chance to go in? Yes.

Two points?

Glad i'm not a horse….

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Glad I'm not a horse…

Can't we all agree that it's a poorly worded rule, and use intent and purpose if it happens in our game, and move on?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Can't we all agree that it's a poorly worded rule, and use intent and purpose if it happens in our game, and move on?

Everybody has given their opinion multiple times.Over and over again. The horse is dead. And you are now killing the cat.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

... killing the cat.

Nine lives?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nine lives?

Ha. Down to 2 or 3 on this thread. Moderator plz lock...

[Camron Rust]

Travel! I know it to be true!

[bob jenkins]

Situation: NBA D League (or where ever it is) with 4 refs.

Play: A1 throws the ball semi-toward the basket. The ball is contacted by B1 within the 3-point arc and deflects through the basket. While the ball is in the air A1 contacts B2. R1 rules the original throw to be worth 3 points. R2 rules the original throw to be worth 2 points. R3 rules the contact a charge. R4 rules the contact to be a block.

Result: ?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Situation: NBA D League (or where ever it is) with 4 refs.

Play: A1 throws the ball semi-toward the basket. The ball is contacted by B1 within the 3-point arc and deflects through the basket. While the ball is in the air A1 contacts B2. R1 rules the original throw to be worth 3 points. R2 rules the original throw to be worth 2 points. R3 rules the contact a charge. R4 rules the contact to be a block.

Result: ?

I'm dead. No more lives left after this one….