Three (3) point attempt made, then changed to a 2 point goal

[johnny1784]

A1 shoots a shot from behind the three point line and the trail official indicates a three point attempt. The trail official’s position is straight-line with shooters feet. The shot by A1 goes in and trail official signals the shot is good at buzzer. The lead official thinks the shooter A1 was touching the 3 point line and confronts trail official who isn’t sure it was in fact a 3 point attempt. Trail official then asked the table what they saw. Table personnel agree with lead official that A1’s toes where on the 3 point line. Trail official waves off the 3 point goal and instructs table to change to a 2 point goal for Team A. Team A lost the game by 1 point. Was the correct method applied to wave off the 3 point goal?

[APG]

I'm not asking the table whether whether a shot was a two or a three. I don't know how they would have any better of an angle than the trail or lead. Also, the lead shouldn't go to the trail unless he's certain that the trail got the call incorrect.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnny1784

A1 shoots a shot from behind the three point line and the trail official indicates a three point attempt. The trail official’s position is straight-line with shooters feet. The shot by A1 goes in and trail official signals the shot is good at buzzer. The lead official thinks the shooter A1 was touching the 3 point line and confronts trail official who isn’t sure it was in fact a 3 point attempt. Trail official then asked the table what they saw. Table personnel agree with lead official that A1’s toes where on the 3 point line. Trail official waves off the 3 point goal and instructs table to change to a 2 point goal for Team A. Team A lost the game by 1 point. Was the correct method applied to wave off the 3 point goal?

The L thinks? Either I know (as the L) or I stay the hell out of it. And the table would never, ever be consulted, unless I was working a game where a monitor was in place and reviewable.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny1784

A1 shoots a shot from behind the three point line and the trail official indicates a three point attempt. The trail official’s position is straight-line with shooters feet. The shot by A1 goes in and trail official signals the shot is good at buzzer. The lead official thinks the shooter A1 was touching the 3 point line and confronts trail official who isn’t sure it was in fact a 3 point attempt. Trail official then asked the table what they saw. Table personnel agree with lead official that A1’s toes where on the 3 point line. Trail official waves off the 3 point goal and instructs table to change to a 2 point goal for Team A. Team A lost the game by 1 point. Was the correct method applied to wave off the 3 point goal?

Are you getting this info 1st-hand, 2nd-hand, or 3rd-hand?

As described, no, this was not handled correctly.

[RobbyinTN]

Assuming the play was in the Trail's PCA, what was the Lead doing looking there anyway? No way as a Lead would I have changed that unless I was absolutely certain beyond any doubt that he had missed it.

[APG]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

Assuming the play was in the Trail's PCA, what was the Lead doing looking there anyway? No way as a Lead would I have changed that unless I was absolutely certain beyond any doubt that he had missed it.

It was a last second shot. All officials should have an opinion on the last second shot. Still the lead shouldn't be going to the trail unless he has absolute knowledge that he missed a three vs. two.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

Assuming the play was in the Trail's PCA, what was the Lead doing looking there anyway? No way as a Lead would I have changed that unless I was absolutely certain beyond any doubt that he had missed it.

Reference the video from a few weeks ago. On a last second shot where the horn will go near the release of the shot, the L should also be getting a look.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by johnny1784

A1 shoots a shot from behind the three point line and the trail official indicates a three point attempt. The trail official’s position is straight-line with shooters feet. The shot by A1 goes in and trail official signals the shot is good at buzzer. The lead official thinks the shooter A1 was touching the 3 point line and confronts trail official who isn’t sure it was in fact a 3 point attempt. Trail official then asked the table what they saw. Table personnel agree with lead official that A1’s toes where on the 3 point line. Trail official waves off the 3 point goal and instructs table to change to a 2 point goal for Team A. Team A lost the game by 1 point. Was the correct method applied to wave off the 3 point goal?

If a non-calling official thinks something other than anyone else whose opinion matters, they do nothing.

My provincial interpreter said this years ago: if they know that an error was made, they should kill the clock immediately, and change the call.

Another approach is to kill the clock, and offer information to the calling official.

These two methods are preferred because the non-calling official can often kill the clock before the ball is live again.

Yet another approach is to let the play go and offer information at the next clock stoppage. This is problematic because you might have a long period of time go by before a clock stoppage.

Ultimately, it could be "when in Rome situation."

[APG]

The next clock stoppage might make the correctable error time period pass.

[Terrapins Fan]

Over 90% of the games I referee are filmed.

I am betting there is video proof, If I am the Lead, I stay out of it unless I know for certain.

If it's not my primary, why am I looking out there? Glance, but not looking.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

Over 90% of the games I referee are filmed.

I am betting there is video proof, If I am the Lead, I stay out of it unless I know for certain.

If it's not my primary, why am I looking out there? Glance, but not looking.

On a last second shot, I'm going out wide (as I would in 2-person) and am getting a look. In my world, we can't go to the monitor and since the horn's going off right after the shot, it would take something intentional or flagrant for me to need to see anything else.

[APG]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

On a last second shot, I'm going out wide (as I would in 2-person) and am getting a look. In my world, we can't go to the monitor and since the horn's going off right after the shot, it would take something intentional or flagrant for me to need to see anything else.

+1

A last second shot is a time when it's acceptable to ball watch. As an off ball official, you're not really going to have to worry too much about screens and holds because everyone's attention is focused on the player with the ball and getting the shot up. Also, I want to be able to help my partner if he asks for help, or if he truly butchers the call.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The next clock stoppage might make the correctable error time period pass.

Good catch. My vote = shut it down.

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

It was a last second shot. All officials should have an opinion on the last second shot. Still the lead shouldn't be going to the trail unless he has absolute knowledge that he missed a three vs. two.

Yea, I wasn't thinking the last second shot think. Still, unless the L is absolutely certain, he doesn't need to make the call as the T should have the best angle on the play. I assume this was a two whistle game since there was no mention of the C who would most likely had a good angle on it as well.

[26 Year Gap]

I had a play in Friday's game where I was trail and C signaled for a 3 at about the intersection of our two areas. Kid's toe was clearly on the line. He gave the field goal sign and I whistled before the inbound could take place. I went over to my partner and told him I clearly saw the foot on the line. He changed it to a 2. I was tableside and advised the scorer, timer, HC [who knew and said that his foot was clearly on the line] & VC [who happened to request a TO after the made basket].