2 or 3 point field goal?

[WreckRef]

This was posted on Reddit and I'm trying to figure out the answer.

Is this a 2 or a 3?

If I'm reading the NFHS case book correctly, it's a 3 point field goal as the position of the defender does not matter even though this isn't a try.

5.2.1 SITUATION C: A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line. The
ball is legally touched by: (a) B1 who is in the three-point area; (b) B1 who is in
the two-point area; (c) A2 who is in the three-point area; or (d) A2 who is in the
two-point area. The ball continues in flight and goes through A's basket. RULING:
In (a) and (b), three points are scored since the legal touching was by the defense
and the ball was thrown from behind the three-point line. In (c), score three
points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred behind the three-point line.
In (d), score two points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred in the twopoint
area.


Someone in the comments said it's actually a college game so the next question is, what is the ruling in women's NCAA basketball?


Thanks

Edit: And yikes, that was not a good pass.

Does that count as 2 or 3?

[JRutledge]

Based on the video, I have a 3. The casebook is clear. It does not tell us how bad the pass or throw at the basket has to be.

Peace

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Based on the video, I have a 3. The casebook is clear. It does not tell us how bad the pass or throw at the basket has to be.

Peace

Thanks for the reply.

Would the ruling be different in NCAA vs NFHS?

Someone cited 5.1.4 which states: Art. 4. A successful try from beyond the three-point line shall count three
points for the team when the ball is thrown or directed into its basket.
a. When a player scores a field goal in the opponent’s basket, it shall count
two points for the opponent regardless of the location on the playing
court from where it was released. Such a field goal shall not be credited
to a player in the scorebook but shall be indicated with a footnote.

I am assuming they are referring to when a player is confused and scores in the wrong basket. I would not consider the situation in the GIF to be what this rule is referring to. Am I wrong?

[JRutledge]

I am about to go to my game tonight. I would have to look it up, but the ruling that the NF has came from the NCAA I do believe. I have no reason to suggest that the ruling is different, but I would have to confirm that for sure.

I found it.

A.R. 103. A ball passed from behind the three-point line:

1. Enters the basket from above and passes through;
2. Is deflected and enters the basket from above and passes through; or
3. Strikes the side of the ring or the flange.

RULING 1: A three-point goal shall be counted.
2: When there is no possibility of the ball entering the basket from
above and the deflection causes the goal to be successful, it shall be
a two-point goal. However, when a ball is passed in the direction of
the basket with the possibility of entering the basket from above and
the deflection does not influence its success, a three-point goal shall
be counted.
3: The ball shall remain live. In 1, 2 and 3, when a passed ball hits the
ring or flange and does not enter the basket, there is no reset of the
shot clock.
(Rule 5-1.1, 5-1.2.a, 5-1.3 and .4, 4-24 and 2-11.6.d)



Peace

[crosscountry55]

Well I'll be darned. I never would have figured the NCAA interpretation is different than the NFHS one.

I learn something new every day.

So the OP video is a 3 in NFHS and a 2 in NCAA.

[just another ref]

I have a two on the video in the OP.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I have a two on the video in the OP.

NCAA it is definitely a two. Tip is the only thing that allowed ball go in.

Now in high school we have the play cited above and also another one where a "try" from outside three line hits defense on shoulder. Ball bounces in. A try is a thrown ball. Ruling Score 2 only. The try ended is reasoning.

So, the first play cited above says thrown ball from behind 3 line, (reads like any thrown ball) touched by defense inside 3 line is 3 points. A pass from wing over the top deflected by a defender at the FT line into basket is 3?

I have reconciled those two high school case plays like NCAA ruling. If ball has absolutely 0,0, 0 chance of going in on a thrown ball, never gets above rim level without a tip, then defense tips it in..I'll count it 2.

I'm interested to hear others on those two plays nfhs. I think reading them like the AR Jeff put up earlier makes most sense...

[deecee]

I have a 2 on any ruleset. IT clearly is a pass that gets deflected in.

Even if it were a shot the shot was clearly over and the ball when tipped was at least 2 feet below the rim, and if it weren't tipped would be no way near going in the basket as it is way below the actual basket. This is no different to me than a tipped rebound that goes in.

[BillyMac]

Years ago, when the three point line was first added to the NFHS rulebook, in order for three points to be scored, there had to be a "try", not a pass, or anything else. Problems occurred where alley oop passes "accidentally" went in the basket, so the word "try" was removed from the scoring definition. I also believe (I'm a little more fuzzy on this aspect) that if the defender, from inside the three point line, tipped the ball, it was originally scored as a two point basket (thus the case play now interpreting this as a three point basket).

Keep both of these ideas in mind as we try to interpret this situation.

I think that the rule, as written, and the case play, leans toward the interpretation of this situation (nice video) as being three point basket, even if we wouldn't score the basket if the horn ending the period sounded before the ball went in the basket because it wasn't a try, nor would we call a goaltending violation, also because it wasn't a try.

[WreckRef]

Thanks to all who replied.

So for NFHS, 3 points.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

Thanks to all who replied.

So for NFHS, 3 points.

Depends on who you ask, I guess. Opinions seem to be split. To me, it's clearly a 2.

[BigCat]

4.41.4b.

Maybe Billy can get past the throw in nonsense (please) and post this play. Three point try falls below rim level hits opponent on shoulder and bounces in. Score only two points. A try is also a thrown ball. A pass never was a try..like in the OP. Player hits it and knocks it in when it clearly had no chance of going in on its own. Wasn't ever above rim level. The rule 5 play above doesn't really tell us much about where the pass was headed etc. it's language"ball touched and continues in..." makes it seem as if it was always headed at the basket and had chance to go in.

How to reconcile these two plays? I think college route is best. A pass that has no chance whatsoever, obviously, that is then redirected should count 2. Just as the try , which again is a thrown ball, counts two if it falls below rim level.

2 here for me but this one bugs me...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

4.41.4b.

4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it
hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through
the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and
below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are
scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

5-2 2 Scoring: Art. 1 A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball
that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal
from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.
See 4-5-4.

How about: Thrown ball (pass) from outside the arc touches an opponent and goes in?

Perhaps, as in a few other cases, the caseplay trumps the rule?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it
hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through
the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and
below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are
scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

5-2 2 Scoring: Art. 1 A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball
that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal
from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.
See 4-5-4.

How about: Thrown ball (pass) from outside the arc touches an opponent and goes in?

Perhaps, as in a few other cases, the caseplay trumps the rule?

If it's going towards the basket and has a "chance" at going in I'm counting a 3. In this case that's clearly not happening so it's a 2.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it
hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through
the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and
below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are
scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

5-2 2 Scoring: Art. 1 A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball
that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal
from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.
See 4-5-4.

How about: Thrown ball (pass) from outside the arc touches an opponent and goes in?

Perhaps, as in a few other cases, the caseplay trumps the rule?

A try is a thrown ball. If we only looked at the rule 5 play-we'd say the try that falls short and hits a defender on shoulder...then goes in-- ..was a thrown ball from behind the arc touched by defender. 3 pts. We dont say that though because we have the rule 4 play that says basket is a 2 because the try ended. Try ends once ball doesnt have chance to go in.

I dont think the rule 5 play means that any ball thrown from behind the arc that is deflected by defense and then goes in counts 3. EX. a player from the right wing behind the 3 line tries to throw ball over top to the left wing. Defender on FT line gets a hand on it and deflects it at basket and in. I think it is a 2 because it had zero chance of going in without the deflection.

So far it has been a once in a career play...but im not done just yet.