Ejected From Tournament (Video)

[MD Longhorn]

Perhaps I read it wrong. if I did, I apologize. Most of his other videos have been with his team in white, so I could have assumed inappropriately.

[JRutledge]

Are we ejecting the defender because of how the player fell or because of how hard the player was pushed or both?

I am not convinced this is a slam dunk flagrant foul. Because if the player stayed somewhat on their feet are we calling anything more than an intentional?

Peace

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Are we ejecting the defender because of how the player fell or because of how hard the player was pushed or both?



I am not convinced this is a slam dunk flagrant foul. Because if the player stayed somewhat on their feet are we calling anything more than an intentional?



Peace

Don't play the what if game with this stuff. Two handed shove like that is flagrant in this case. Doesn't mean it always is but in this case, yes, it is

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

Don't play the what if game with this stuff. Two handed shove like that is flagrant in this case. Doesn't mean it always is but in this case, yes, it is

I had a 2 handed shove that I merely called intentional.

But that was in the half-court on a rebounded ball and there was little momentum involved. On a fast break, my call would've been different.

[Adam]

I've had one I called intentional. Same kid did it later that game and my partner called it flagrant. Mine could have gone either way, the second one was with more force on an even smaller player.

I'm also going to note the officials did not eject this kid from the tournament. Tournament officials must have done that, either through direct intervention or established rules.

[UNIgiantslayers]

We had a 2 handed shove in a game earlier this year in a BV game that I regret not being more stubborn that it should've been flagrant. It was the second time the kid had done something like that --he gave an light 2 handed shove the first time that didn't add much if anything to the kids momentum, and the second time the other kid went plowing into the bleachers behind the basket. I wanted to go flagrant, but my partners did not want to excuse a kid from a game for that. My argument was that it was the second time, and there was a real risk of injury. In fact, the kid who was pushed was out of the game the rest of the first half with rib area pain. We talked about it in the car on the way home, and they both agreed after I presented my case, but on the court I wasn't going to argue when two of the three don't want to upgrade. I tried to get video from both coaches to post here to get thoughts, but neither sent it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

Don't play the what if game with this stuff. Two handed shove like that is flagrant in this case. Doesn't mean it always is but in this case, yes, it is

I think it is an appropriate question. We always ask "what if" questions here. Because the contact was not a lot and was not that bad alone, but the result was bad for sure. I am just wondering if we change our minds if she never goes head first into the wall. And I am not so sure I would call a flagrant in that situation.

Peace

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think it is an appropriate question. We always ask "what if" questions here. Because the contact was not a lot and was not that bad alone, but the result was bad for sure. I am just wondering if we change our minds if she never goes head first into the wall. And I am not so sure I would call a flagrant in that situation.



Peace

In this case, this is a ridiculous argument. She was shoved into a wall. You cannot separate the cause and effect. They are one in the same in these types of things.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

In this case, this is a ridiculous argument. She was shoved into a wall. You cannot separate the cause and effect. They are one in the same in these types of things.

Ridiculous? Well I have seen many plays that did not have the player go down that we have not had a flagrant foul. So if you disagree that is fine, but I think the actual contact with the player was minor. It does not take much to knock someone off their square for sure. And I have no issue with the call that was made here. But wondering if that matters. Now it would to me and I am just fine with the situation because sometimes there is no wall that close in these situations or it is further away. But again I have been doing this awhile to consider all the possibilities. If you don't, I have no issue with you, but for those that want to know and I know I am not the only one considering this if they watch this video, you have to have something to tell them if the question the severity of hitting the wall. Been doing this for some time with video and people tend to ask for other possibilities.

Peace

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Are we ejecting the defender because of how the player fell or because of how hard the player was pushed or both?

I am not convinced this is a slam dunk flagrant foul. Because if the player stayed somewhat on their feet are we calling anything more than an intentional?

Peace

I think you have a great point. I think the subsequent fall into a hard wall after being pushed in the back is enough for a flagrant, followed by disqualification.

I would have done the same in this situation. Who knows what that girl will do next if she isn't tossed now.

[Hawkeyes]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

I think you have a great point. I think the subsequent fall into a hard wall after being pushed in the back is enough for a flagrant, followed by disqualification.

I would have done the same in this situation. Who knows what that girl will do next if she isn't tossed now.

If she didn't fall into the wall - is it still worthy of disqualification?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Hawkeyes

If she didn't fall into the wall - is it still worthy of disqualification?

Not for me.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not for me.

I might have because she made a point to get close enough to bend elbows and gave her pretty good 2 handed shove while in the air. Total non basketball play that could cause big damage, wall or no wall.

[packersowner]

I don't care about the proximity of the wall or even how hard she was shoved, I care about the exposure of the offensive player in this situation.

She had no ability to absorb the content, she was in a compromised position, and in all likelihood didn't know she was about to get shoved from behind. These add up to a flagrant for me.

I had a similar situation a few weeks ago, smaller girl goes to foul a larger heavier set girl at the end of a game. The defender came and two hand shoved the other girl, but in this case the offensive player knew it was coming, absorbed it and even turned into the contact to avoid it. I called an intentional.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not for me.

Me either.

As someone else has mentioned -- you can't separate cause and effect from these types of calls. If it's a two handed shove and she doesn't go to the ground at all, I'll go intentional, but flagrant would not fit the situation.