Held Ball or Travel?

[RefBob]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The defender can touch the ball such that the shooter thinks they can no longer easily "make" the shot but could easily shoot it anyway. The shooter chooses not to release the ball. That is causing it without preventing it.

This is exactly what happened. In my opinion, the contact by B1 on the ball kind of took A1 out of their shooting rhythm. The contact kind of made A1 panic (this was a girl's middle school game) and she failed to release. In my opinion, A1 was not prevented from releasing by a "stuff" of the ball by B1.

I agree, that this is a tough call and a tough distinction - especially in a girl's middle school game. But I'm interested in how this would be called in, for example, a boy's varsity game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm guessing that's a held ball 99% of the time as called by officials. Wouldn't argue with them either.

I wouldn't argue with them since it is certainly a judgement as to whether it was prevented but i hope the officials are applying their judgement using the proper rule instead of an incorrect rule.

[Rob1968]

Case Book 4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; RULING: (b) the ball remains live.

The implication is that A1, subsequent to the touching of the ball by B1, did release the ball.

In (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; RULING: in (c), a traveling violation.

Perhaps, we tend to overthink this play, by ignoring the implication in (b).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Case Book 4.44.3 SITUATION A ...

4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the
ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing
the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or
(d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it
bounces. RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation.
In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since
the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains
live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I wouldn't argue with them since it is certainly a judgement as to whether it was prevented but i hope the officials are applying their judgement using the proper rule instead of an incorrect rule.

I'm going to make the call that fits the situation and the game. I'm not looking to turn a held ball into a travel and I rarely look to make a call where the one bench thinks I'm an idiot and the other feels they got away with something.

Would I call a travel in a very specific situation? Yes. But 99% of the time a player gets a hand on a ball with an airborne player that returns to the floor with it, it's going to be a held ball. And I've never heard anyone argue otherwise......except on the Internet.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rich

And I've never heard anyone argue otherwise......except on the Internet.

You've got good ears...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm going to make the call that fits the situation and the game. I'm not looking to turn a held ball into a travel and I rarely look to make a call where the one bench thinks I'm an idiot and the other feels they got away with something.

Would I call a travel in a very specific situation? Yes. But 99% of the time a player gets a hand on a ball with an airborne player that returns to the floor with it, it's going to be a held ball. And I've never heard anyone argue otherwise......except on the Internet.

Agree....there is that 1% play, that happens once or twice a year.

[just another ref]

It is not that unusual, particularly at lower levels, for a defender to be in the face of a shooter and not touch the ball at all, and the shooter returns to the floor holding the ball. With this in mind, it's certainly not hard to imagine that a brief touch which would not be a held ball can disconcert the shooter to return to the floor holding the ball.

[RefBob]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is not that unusual, particularly at lower levels, for a defender to be in the face of a shooter and not touch the ball at all, and the shooter returns to the floor holding the ball. With this in mind, it's certainly not hard to imagine that a brief touch which would not be a held ball can disconcert the shooter to return to the floor holding the ball.

Again, this was pretty much my play exactly. At the time, it really seemed to be a stretch to call a held ball on a relatively slight glancing hit of the ball by the defender. To call a held ball seems to me to be relying more on the response of the offensive player (was it strong or weak) and less on the action of the defense (was it a pin of the ball).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is not that unusual, particularly at lower levels, for a defender to be in the face of a shooter and not touch the ball at all, and the shooter returns to the floor holding the ball. With this in mind, it's certainly not hard to imagine that a brief touch which would not be a held ball can disconcert the shooter to return to the floor holding the ball.

I don't work those levels much anymore, so I don't see this happening.

Although I had a double dribble in a varsity boys game that happened right in front of me that I didn't see cause I usually don't watch dribblers who are not contested.

[VaTerp]

I think that those saying this is a held ball 99% of the time are overlooking that the OP said girls middle school game and our applying that percentage estimate to varsity level games.

I havent worked a girls middle school game in a long time but I do coach my 8 year old daughters team and this sort of thing will happen.

As described in the OP and subsequent posts Im confident the travel violation was the right call here.