Almost a held ball, or almost a travel?

[mick]

Just as A1 and B1 are each firmly holding the ball, but before a held ball is adjudged, A1 lifts each foot and lowers each foot to the floor in an attempt to wrench the ball free.

What is next?

[w_sohl]

Well, I am assuming that A1 had the ball first as A indicates offense. So, B came in in an attempt to create a held ball, A moved both feet and we have a travel on A.

[deecee]

what would you call as A1 drives to the basket and starts a jump stop but B1 reaches in and also holds the ball as A1 starts the jump stop and when he lands still both are holding -- I have a held ball here.

The same would go for your scenario -- usually if both teams have possesion of the ball i call a jump ball if one of them violates while both are holding -- like a player with the ball gets held up and looses his balance and falls -- both players hold on while he falls (technically thats a travel on him) but its a held ball.

the only time i do not is if one player steps out of bounds during this then i would call him oob.

[ChrisSportsFan]

I think a little preventative officiating is to go with a jump. The way I understand the play is that both A and B had a grip on the ball, ref is probably about to call for a held ball when A travels. Which came first and what caused what? IMO, the held ball, each player tugging caused the travel. I'd probably go with a held ball.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
A1 lifts each foot and lowers each foot to the floor in an attempt to wrench the ball free.

Sounds like they each had a very firm grip on the ball. Sounds to me like neither one could get sole control without exerting undue force.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Sounds like they each had a very firm grip on the ball. Sounds to me like neither one could get sole control without exerting undue force.

Yeah, Chuck,...sorta.
The firm grip happened, but the determination of "undue force" wasn't quite made.
mick

[IREFU2]

Jump ball immediately. It seems like it took a second or two for all of that to happen.

[[email protected]]

I believe you would call the held ball before the travel. Because they're can be no violation if a held ball occurs (unless its an unsportsmanlike foul).

[Smitty]

If there's been no held-ball yet, you only have a travel.

[jritchie]

i would go with the held ball, sounds like they both had a good grip and forced A to travel.... I just think "would he of traveled if team B wouldn't of had hold of the ball?"

[Smitty]

Originally posted by jritchie
i would go with the held ball, sounds like they both had a good grip and forced A to travel.... I just think "would he of traveled if team B wouldn't of had hold of the ball?"

Isn't that just good defense, grabbing hold of the ball? I reverse your logic and say that the good defense caused player A to travel. It was clear in the original situation that not enough had happened yet to warrant a held-ball call.

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by Smitty

Isn't that just good defense, grabbing hold of the ball? I reverse your logic and say that the good defense caused player A to travel. It was clear in the original situation that not enough had happened yet to warrant a held-ball call.

His initial post said they where "firmly" holding the ball. I would get in there with the JUMP ASAP!

[Smitty]

Originally posted by IREFU2

His initial post said they where "firmly" holding the ball. I would get in there with the JUMP ASAP!

It also says but before a held ball is adjudged

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by Smitty

It also says but before a held ball is adjudged

You are splitting hairs. Call the held ball before they start swinging each other around or someone catches an elbow. Besides, do you really want to explain all that to a coach?

[Smitty]

I'm just answering the question as it was written. What I'd do in real life depends on the scenario. Isn't splitting hairs what we all do best here? Give me a break.