Travel or held ball?

[Back In The Saddle]

The situation:

A1 goes in for a layup, B1 reaches out and briefly touches the ball while it's still in A1's hand, then pulls his hand back--all while A1 is still in the beginning of his upward motion toward the basket. A1 returns to the floor without releasing the ball.

My question:

In my judgement, B1 did not block the shot, rather A1, expecting that B1 would block the shot, gave up and returned to the floor with the ball. Had he not given up on it, he could have easily gotten the shot off. I called it a travel. Was I right or wrong?

[ChuckElias]

If the defender didn't prevent him from releasing the ball, it's a travel. Good call.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
The situation:

A1 goes in for a layup, B1 reaches out and briefly touches the ball while it's still in A1's hand, then pulls his hand back--all while A1 is still in the beginning of his upward motion toward the basket. A1 returns to the floor without releasing the ball.

My question:

In my judgement, B1 did not block the shot, rather A1, expecting that B1 would block the shot, gave up and returned to the floor with the ball. Had he not given up on it, he could have easily gotten the shot off. I called it a travel. Was I right or wrong?

I think I'd have called a jump by instinct, but I'm not sure I should have. Probably it would depend on the level. Lower grades such as JH and Freshmen, probably a jump. JV and Varsity, if these are kids with skills and experience, call the travel. But even some JV teams have brand new players who really don't know how to "Play Through."

What you really don't want is a no-call.

[rainmaker]

Chuck -- Now who's chicken -- on the board but not on IM!?!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Chuck -- Now who's chicken -- on the board but not on IM!?!

As long as you're not that chicken in the joke, you're OK.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

As long as you're not that chicken in the joke, you're OK.

Oh, Mark... GGAAAGGG!!!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by rainmaker

I think I'd have called a jump by instinct, but I'm not sure I should have. Probably it would depend on the level. Lower grades such as JH and Freshmen, probably a jump. JV and Varsity, if these are kids with skills and experience, call the travel. But even some JV teams have brand new players who really don't know how to "Play Through."

What you really don't want is a no-call.

I agree that no call would be the worst call (with apologies to ROMANO).

Your thinking on this intrigues me. I would think that at the lower levels (this was a 7th grade boys game), that calling the travel would be the more "instructive" thing to do. I.e., the kid that didn't take the shot would learn more from the turnover than he would if I had called the jump. Perhaps I don't understand enough about players at this age?

I called what looked obvious to me. Hopefully I'll get to the point soon where the jump ball is instinctive. Some days I still feel SOOOO new

[ROMANO]

JUMP-BALL!
nothing more to say.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle


A1 goes in for a layup, B1 reaches out and briefly touches the ball while it's still in A1's hand, then pulls his hand back--all while A1 is still in the beginning of his upward motion toward the basket. A1 returns to the floor without releasing the ball.

In my judgement, B1 did not block the shot, rather A1, expecting that B1 would block the shot, gave up and returned to the floor with the ball. Had he not given up on it, he could have easily gotten the shot off. I called it a travel. Was I right or wrong?

The call is strictly up to your judgement.If you thought,as above,that B1 didn't prevent A1 from shooting or passing,then it definitely is a travel. FED casebook play 4.43.3SitA(c) is the exact same play,and backs up your call.It is only a jump ball if the official judges that A1 has been prevented from releasing the ball(casebook play 4.25.2).

[mick]

Originally posted by ROMANO
JUMP-BALL!
nothing more to say.

David, David, David ...{sigh!}
Keep reading and keep improving.
Some things are cast in concrete, others are not.
You must use your judgment from time to time, that's the hard part, but that's the reason we get the Big Buck$.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

Your thinking on this intrigues me. I would think that at the lower levels (this was a 7th grade boys game), that calling the travel would be the more "instructive" thing to do. I.e., the kid that didn't take the shot would learn more from the turnover than he would if I had called the jump. Perhaps I don't understand enough about players at this age? [/B]

I wasn't thinking about it from an instructive point of view. I figure that at the lower levels kids aren't as skilled to "play through", in other words to stick to it. They don't have the perspective to see the possibilities. Someone got their hand on it, so the play is over, in their mind. I agree that this isn't a very good way to play, but I'm willing to allow a kid a year or two or three to get past it. So I'm saying I'd call the jump the instant the defender's hand is there and don't give the shooter time to travel. You're rewarding good defense, without penalizing the offense for being weak. They get enough other penalties.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by mick
but that's the reason we get the Big Buck$.

You must know something I don't

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by rainmaker
You're rewarding good defense, without penalizing the offense for being weak. They get enough other penalties.

Okay, I can see the logic in that.

[NICK]

Seeing that the ball is "briefly touched" and not held I'd call travel.

[JeffTheRef]

if he traveled. The question is not clearly posed.