Block or Charge or No Call (Video)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

By "lateral" movement we're not talking about the defender's right to move sideways. What that means is the defender has to move in the same direction (forwards/backwards/right/left) as the dribbler. I can't remember the exact wording in the rule book, but it may also mention speed as well.

Yes, that's what "lateral" means.

No, it doesn't mean what you say (especially "forward")

Speed / distance are not a consideration when guarding a player with the ball ("airborne" is a factor).

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, that's what "lateral" means.

No, it doesn't mean what you say (especially "forward")

Speed / distance are not a consideration when guarding a player with the ball ("airborne" is a factor).

I should have added the "or obliquely" part of the rule, which implies what I said.

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[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, that's what "lateral" means.

No, it doesn't mean what you say (especially "forward")

Speed / distance are not a consideration when guarding a player with the ball ("airborne" is a factor).

Btw, the "speed" thing was about how fast the dribbler is moving (which, yes, is wrong). Not about time and distance.

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Btw, the "speed" thing was about how fast the dribbler is moving (which, yes, is wrong). Not about time and distance.

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The speed of the dribbler has nothing to do with the rule.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The speed of the dribbler has nothing to do with the rule.

Hence the "which is wrong" part of the post

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[Pantherdreams]

Once you establish LGP you may move laterally to maintain LGP.

Moving laterally does not guarantee you maintain LGP.

In the case of the video the lateral movement taken by the defender changed the defense's angle and stopped the defender from facing the ball carrier and gave the dribbler an attack line that the defense no longer had LGP established for. So shoulder to shoulder contact results in a block.


If that is too convoluted.

BLOCK.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Once you establish LGP you may move laterally to maintain LGP.

Moving laterally does not guarantee you maintain LGP.

In the case of the video the lateral movement taken by the defender changed the defense's angle and stopped the defender from facing the ball carrier and gave the dribbler an attack line that the defense no longer had LGP established for. So shoulder to shoulder contact results in a block.


If that is too convoluted.

BLOCK.

I don't believe you have to face your opponent to maintain LGP... Just to establish.

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[Rob1968]

Notably, we continue to use the word "establish" rather than the word "obtain" LGP. Many years ago, the NFHS decided to use the latter, because the former seemed to imply a process, of indeterminate duration. The intent of the change in verbiage was to emphasize that when guarding a moving opponent with the ball, there is no time or distance factor involved.
In the play under discussion, it seems that the necessary factors of the block/charge rule result in a correct call of block.

[xyrph]

Thanks for the answers guys.

It seems that everyone is in agreement that this video portrays a block by the defender.

I truly want to understand this. My understanding (admittedly incomplete) has been that to establish LGP the defender's torso must be facing the ball handler and both feet must be on the ground. for how long, I don't know, but long enough to establish the right to the floor space, an instant.

My understanding continues that after achieving LGP the defender can move backward or laterally (but not forward toward the ball handler) and still maintain LGP.

But this notion that they cannot turn is unfamiliar to me. Are we saying that after establishing LGP that a defender cannot turn to brace for impact? Let's say that the defender did not leave her spot on the floor after establishing LGP at a particular location, but simply pivoted in place to brace for impact from a "hard-charging" ball handler, and she gets displaced from the impact (pushed backward, perhaps even thrown to the ground by the impact), this is a block, because she changed her orientation in-place?

If this is the case, please give the rule reference. I want to understand this because this is contrary to what I've always understood.

As an aside, what if we take this to the extreme? A defender is stationary in the line from the ball handler to the basket, but has her back to the defender, and the ball handler decides to dribble directly through the defender (who is facing 180 degrees from the ball handler) and displaces the defender noticeably, what is the rule here?

Thank you for your guidance.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by xyrph

Let's say that the defender did not leave her spot on the floor after establishing LGP at a particular location, but simply pivoted in place to brace for impact from a "hard-charging" ball handler, and she gets displaced from the impact (pushed backward, perhaps even thrown to the ground by the impact), this is a block, because she changed her orientation in-place?

As an aside, what if we take this to the extreme? A defender is stationary in the line from the ball handler to the basket, but has her back to the defender, and the ball handler decides to dribble directly through the defender (who is facing 180 degrees from the ball handler) and displaces the defender noticeably, what is the rule here?

Thank you for your guidance.

A defender is allowed to brace, "how much" is at the discretion of the officials on the floor that night. Realistically we don't want them twisting half their body, covering their head, falling, and crouching into the fetal position at the same time. Mostly all this creates MORE danger for injury than just taking the hit, landing, sliding back, and moving on.

Everyone is entitled to a spot on the floor. Your second scenario is a foul on the ball handler.

[VaTerp]

This is a CLEAR block. The defender does not maintain LGP and as a result of her movement her shoulder ends up in the path of the offensive player at the time of contact.o