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Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 10:17am
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Disagreement with Crew Partner

Sitch:
A1 is smallish frame guard; B1 is a heavy set post player--prolly outweighs her by 50 pounds. First quarter action--A1 was dribbling down lane, B1 closes down in help-defense mode and established LGP, A1 drives with shoulder into B1 and A1 falls backwards [actually bounces off B1's torso] lands on her hinny while holding the ball. B1 was not displaced much at all. I am in the L position, and whistle with open-hand up, I did pause a half-a-beat to mentally digest the sitch before calling a travel on A1. Then, Partner comes running in with a whistle and calls a block on B1 (in a rather animated fashion).

Here is happened between us: we spoke off to the side [for what seemed like a long time but was prolly only 10 seconds or so] and I told partner that this was my PCA and I had a travel; he then said that “we have to call something because there's a body on the floor". He then added, "trust me, I've been officiating for 17 years and this is how it is handled in order to keep the drama down." I then told him that "I had the call in my primary and we are going with a travel." Admittedly, I believe he felt as though I was not respecting his “17 years of tenure” so to speak because he was 'short' with me the rest of the game and was not as chummy during intermission—or maybe he just continued to hold the belief that I made with wrong call. I bring this issue up to not necessarily debate the ‘correctness of the call’ but to illustrate how we as officials might become suspect to irrational decisions due to the influence of another official who may try to cite their ‘’years of service’’ as a means of justifying the correctness of their call versus relying on the directives from the Officials Manual.
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 10:23am
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My question would be if it was LGP, why wasn't it player control? Sounds like the defender did what she was supposed to do, you wanted to penalize her with a travel, your 17 year partner wanted to penalize her with a foul

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Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 10:24am
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Originally Posted by rlarry View Post
My question would be if it was LGP, why wasn't it player control? Sounds like the defender did what she was supposed to do, you wanted to penalize her with a travel, your 17 year partner wanted to penalize her with a foul

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He ruled it incidental contact and the offensive player subsequently traveled. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 10:30am
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I'm glad you stuck with it. There are far too many people who penalize people for being big. When a smaller person runs into a much bigger/stronger person the smaller will bounce off. That's not a push on the big person…Doesn't look nice but it isn't a foul.
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 11:13am
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In my small corner of the world, we pre-game these situations and its generally been the rule of the land, that if your partner comes running in, we go with whatever the partner has.

A couple of weeks ago, my partner had a jump ball, I came flying in because I had a travel first. Since we pre-game this, my partner went with my call. At halftime, we discussed and I was in the wrong based on the information my partner gave me. I apologized and we made a few jokes about it, went out and had a great 2nd half.

I like this approach, even though some may argue it, because it allowed us to move on mentally in both the 1st and 2nd halves. I would venture to guess you spent the next 15 minutes thinking about what happened.
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 12:12pm
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Originally Posted by packersowner View Post
In my small corner of the world, we pre-game these situations and its generally been the rule of the land, that if your partner comes running in, we go with whatever the partner has.

A couple of weeks ago, my partner had a jump ball, I came flying in because I had a travel first. Since we pre-game this, my partner went with my call. At halftime, we discussed and I was in the wrong based on the information my partner gave me. I apologized and we made a few jokes about it, went out and had a great 2nd half.

I like this approach, even though some may argue it, because it allowed us to move on mentally in both the 1st and 2nd halves. I would venture to guess you spent the next 15 minutes thinking about what happened.
If a partner comes running into me, I'm going with his call even if it's wrong...unless it's a crunch-time play.

Had a partner this season come in a tell me I got a OOB call wrong that happened right in front of me, so I changed my call. Later in the game, in the last 2 minutes of 1-2 point game, I'm Lead and ball goes out OOB on the opposite side of the lane after a missed free throw. Same partner is the Center on this play, I ask for help, and he says he didn't see it.
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 12:04pm
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Originally Posted by rlarry View Post
My question would be if it was LGP, why wasn't it player control? Sounds like the defender did what she was supposed to do, you wanted to penalize her with a travel, your 17 year partner wanted to penalize her with a foul

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No, Kansas Ref wanted to correctly rule a travel on A1, the partner wanted to incorrectly penalize B1 with a foul.
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 10:24am
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Your partner is a chucklehead.

I've been there. TRUST me.
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Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 03:39pm
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The contact knocked her on her hinny, that was the travel call

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Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 02:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
Sitch:

I am in the L position, and whistle with open-hand up, I did pause a half-a-beat to mentally digest the sitch before calling a travel on A1. Then, Partner comes running in with a whistle and calls a block on B1 (in a rather animated fashion).


Cameron, sure sounds like he called nothing until he decided he didn't like the L's travel.

His subsequent explanation tells me he was just making shit up, too.

If I'm the L, I'm not giving in to that nonsense.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 02:25pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Cameron, sure sounds like he called nothing until he decided he didn't like the L's travel.

His subsequent explanation tells me he was just making shit up, too.

If I'm the L, I'm not giving in to that nonsense.
I guess it depends on how long the implied time was. I agree he was probably wrong in his judgement and certainly it seems so with his reason (I'd be the first to call him on that) but I'm not convinced the OP was any more right in how he handled it.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 02:57pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I guess it depends on how long the implied time was. I agree he was probably wrong in his judgement and certainly it seems so with his reason (I'd be the first to call him on that) but I'm not convinced the OP was any more right in how he handled it.
I read it the way Rich did. I think we accept OP as true. If that is how it happened, I do like OPs handling much more than his partner's.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 03:03pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
I read it the way Rich did. I think we accept OP as true. If that is how it happened, I do like OPs handling much more than his partner's.
I know there are plenty of times where I've no-called what first appeared to be marginal or insignificant contact until I observed that it ultimately caused a travel or other disadvantage. I did this just 2-3 days ago. I caught heat from one coach for it but it was the right call.

The timing of his whistle, even if after the travel occurred, is not a problem for me. His judgement may well have been poor, or even completely wrong, but I don't think him making the call based on what he felt occurred was wrong since it clearly occurred first.

I do not like the OP telling his partner that it was his PCA as a way to justify his call was the correct call before the L said anything about it other than that he had a block before the travel and still insisted that his call, which clearly occurred second, was what they were going with. His action was worse than his partners IMO.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Thu Jan 12, 2017 at 03:07pm.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 03:18pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I know there are plenty of times where I've no-called what first appeared to be marginal or insignificant contact until I observed that it ultimately caused a travel or other disadvantage. I did this just 2-3 days ago. I caught heat from one coach for it but it was the right call.

The timing of his whistle, even if after the travel occurred, is not a problem for me. His judgement may well have been poor, or even completely wrong, but I don't think him making the call based on what he felt occurred was wrong since it clearly occurred first.

I do not like the OP telling his partner that it was his PCA as a way to justify his call was the correct call before the L said anything about it other than that he had a block before the travel and still insisted that his call, which clearly occurred second, was what they were going with. His action was worse than his partners IMO.
If I thought I had a good look, saw the bounce, called travel and then his arm went up and he runs to me I would not say it's my PCA.Id say "what the hell are you doing?" Again, if he says no LGP and he thought I was having a block. Ok. But what he said, which I accept as true was "we have a body on floor and need foul to prevent drama." When I hear that it says to me he knows it wasn't a foul but it looked bad so need a foul call to prevent being yelled at.

As between the two I pick the OP. Just what I'd do..
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