Disagreement with Crew Partner

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Um ... except it's in YOUR area, and you determined NO foul ... going with his call, outside his primary would be him setting aside the decision made by you.

The other night I made a bad call on a drive down the lane.

No jokes about me making a bad call... I know.

Anyway, the dribbler drove from my PCA as the center, and into the lane to attempt a shot in front of the lead. I saw the defender swipe at the ball, and I called a foul. Bad call, as I didn't actually see the contact due to being straightlined. I reacted too quickly and made an assumption.

As soon as I made the call I looked at my partner after realizing I shouldn't have made the call, and he had a look on his face that told me the defender never made contact with the dribbler/shooter.

Now... the play happened in his PCA, and he knew that I had made a bad call. So, going by what you just said, should he have overruled my call?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Now... the play happened in his PCA, and he knew that I had made a bad call. So, going by what you just said, should he have overruled my call?

Probably not unless it's a game-saver.

But you've just made my point, not disproved it.

In the OP, his partner (erroneously) rushed in to overrule him after he correctly ruled no-foul and then a travel. His partner should not have tried to overrule him.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Probably not unless it's a game-saver.

But you've just made my point, not disproved it.

In the OP, his partner (erroneously) rushed in to overrule him after he correctly ruled no-foul and then a travel. His partner should not have tried to overrule him.

I don't think I did prove your point. You agreed that just because it was in his PCA, and he didn't agree with my call, that he shouldn't overrule me unless it was a "game-saver". Yet you agree that in the OP he should have overruled his partners bad call.

BTW, I don't consider a no-call a call. There are plenty of times an official will pass on a call, only for a partner to take it.

I'm not saying his partner should have even tried to overrule him, but once he made it known that he had a foul before the travel (meaning it wasn't just brought up in a private conversation), then I'd go with it. And later on we'd have a chat about it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

BTW, I don't consider a no-call a call.

Now we're just into semantics. If you want to say the (non)foul in the OP is a no-call, you can. But the call was made. It was traveling, which was caused by the contact, which was judged not to be a foul. In my opinion if the partner comes in after the fact (which is what I'm picturing here) saying blocking foul and it happened first, he is indeed trying to "set aside a decision made by the other official," which he cannot do. 2-6

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Now we're just into semantics. If you want to say the (non)foul in the OP is a no-call, you can. But the call was made. It was traveling, which was caused by the contact, which was judged not to be a foul. In my opinion if the partner comes in after the fact (which is what I'm picturing here) saying blocking foul and it happened first, he is indeed trying to "set aside a decision made by the other official," which he cannot do. 2-6

My argument hinges on the "other" official making a call. If all he did is come in with information then I have no issues ignoring it. But if he blows his whistle, fist up for a foul, I'm not going to argue about who's PCA the play was in.

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[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

My argument hinges on the "other" official making a call. If all he did is come in with information then I have no issues ignoring it. But if he blows his whistle, fist up for a foul, I'm not going to argue about who's PCA the play was in.

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The OP says there was a bounce, a fall, a travel call and then the other guy running in. If he would have run in and said, "no way, obvious no LGP...Everybody in gym knows it.." .maybe ok. If it's that obvious the official who called the travel may say, "you're right." The guy ran in though and didn't say those things. He said body on floor. Need to have foul. He should pound sand.

That isn't having a foul before the travel. Imo. And if anybody botched I'd say forcefully "it was my call and I made it." Blue ball etc

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The OP says there was a bounce, a fall, a travel call and then the other guy running in. If he would have run in and said, "no way, obvious no LGP...Everybody in gym knows it.." .maybe ok. If it's that obvious the official who called the travel may say, "you're right." The guy ran in though and didn't say those things. He said body on floor. Need to have foul. He should pound sand.

That isn't having a foul before the travel. Imo

Sorry, but I'm not talking directly about the OP. I'm on my phone and don't want to go back and see how it started, but the conversation I've been taking part in here goes beyond that specific scenario and delves into similar situations.

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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

The OP says there was a bounce, a fall, a travel call and then the other guy running in. If he would have run in and said, "no way, obvious no LGP...Everybody in gym knows it.." .maybe ok. If it's that obvious the official who called the travel may say, "you're right." The guy ran in though and didn't say those things. He said body on floor. Need to have foul. He should pound sand.

That isn't having a foul before the travel. Imo. And if anybody botched I'd say forcefully "it was my call and I made it." Blue ball etc

We really don't know when the decisions were made. I often have partners beat me to the whistle on things. So, the timing of the whistle's may be a poor indicator. Maybe the L was watching the whole play before deciding and felt the bump that he was going to pass on initially caused the player to fall but his partner beat him to the whistle.

Either way, decisions as far as the rules go involve making calls, not making no call. If that were not the case, how would we ever reconcile two officials on a play where one makes a foul call and the other doesn't have a foul call. It would be an infinite loop of logic that just doesn't work. You would be forever stuck with one overruling the other's decision.

If I believe a player has LGP but my partner sees something that negates LGP that I didn't see and calls a block, the player likely didn't have LGP.