Chain Reaction Foul #2

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rich

He has no rules support, either, but it's better to be "right."

Let me ask you this Rich, Suppose A1 is leaving ground on layup, in air. B3, total jerk, intentionally shoves B2, not a little push, not in any way an accident. Deliberately to take out A1. You know it and everyone in the gym knows it. B2 hits airborne A1 hard, takes his legs out etc. A1 goes to floor, hard.

What is your call? I told the OP i'd have to see it and it would have to be really bad..and gave a very extreme example as sniper pointed out, more as a joke because i doubt id ever see it. I used throwing the ball as an example because we've talked about using the ball to foul or throw it off player's face etc. Unsportsmanlike. In my play above i'm not going to let B3 off the hook. I think it is a non basketball, unsportsmanlike…flagrant etc. Will it ever happen? hopefully, not. But if a player's intent is clear, non basketball..unsportsmanlike etc., i'm going to penalize him. The fact that he uses one of his own players rather than the ball, his own body or a chair for that matter, doesn't change his intent. There is rules support to deal with B3. Generic unsportsmanlike etc but it is there.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Let me ask you this Rich, Suppose A1 is leaving ground on layup, in air. B3, total jerk, intentionally shoves B2, not a little push, not in any way an accident. Deliberately to take out A1. You know it and everyone in the gym knows it. B2 hits airborne A1 hard, takes his legs out etc. A1 goes to floor, hard.

What is your call? I told the OP i'd have to see it and it would have to be really bad..and gave a very extreme example as sniper pointed out, more as a joke because i doubt id ever see it. I used throwing the ball as an example because we've talked about using the ball to foul or throw it off player's face etc. Unsportsmanlike. In my play above i'm not going to let B3 off the hook. I think it is a non basketball, unsportsmanlike…flagrant etc. Will it ever happen? hopefully, not. But if a player's intent is clear, non basketball..unsportsmanlike etc., i'm going to penalize him. The fact that he uses one of his own players rather than the ball, his own body or a chair for that matter, doesn't change his intent. There is rules support to deal with B3. Generic unsportsmanlike etc but it is there.

I'm talking about calling a personal foul here. I'm also not considering the absurd example, which might warrant an "absurd" response.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm talking about calling a personal foul here. I'm also not considering the absurd example, which might warrant an "absurd" response.

Fair enough…thx

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Let me ask you this Rich, Suppose A1 is leaving ground on layup, in air. B3, total jerk, intentionally shoves B2, not a little push, not in any way an accident. Deliberately to take out A1. You know it and everyone in the gym knows it. B2 hits airborne A1 hard, takes his legs out etc. A1 goes to floor, hard.

What is your call? I told the OP i'd have to see it and it would have to be really bad..and gave a very extreme example as sniper pointed out, more as a joke because i doubt id ever see it. I used throwing the ball as an example because we've talked about using the ball to foul or throw it off player's face etc. Unsportsmanlike. In my play above i'm not going to let B3 off the hook. I think it is a non basketball, unsportsmanlike…flagrant etc. Will it ever happen? hopefully, not. But if a player's intent is clear, non basketball..unsportsmanlike etc., i'm going to penalize him. The fact that he uses one of his own players rather than the ball, his own body or a chair for that matter, doesn't change his intent. There is rules support to deal with B3. Generic unsportsmanlike etc but it is there.

You have repeatedly used the term "unsportsmanlike."

I'd like to know what rules basis you have for referencing the play in this thread or your example as "unsportsmanlike." What exactly would you call here?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

You have repeatedly used the term "unsportsmanlike."

I'd like to know what rules basis you have for referencing the play in this thread or your example as "unsportsmanlike." What exactly would you call here?

If A1 has the ball for the throw in and throws the ball off of B1s face and you deem it unsporting as opposed to accidental, (See 10.4.6 sit B) what are you going to call and rule to cite?

I won't speak to the OP because as I said, id have to see it. I said unsporting is always an option. I should have said it is always a consideration. It has to be bad and deliberate to call it that. In my play, which is non basketball, deliberate etc I would call a Flagrant T and toss him. If we say it can't be a flagrant personal because there was no contact between B3 and A1 (which I agree with) then it becomes a Flagrant T. We are calling it by definition "non contact" and we decided it was unacceptable behavior.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If A1 has the ball for the throw in and throws the ball off of B1s face and you deem it unsporting as opposed to accidental, (See 10.4.6 sit B) what are you going to call and rule to cite?

I won't speak to the OP because as I said, id have to see it. I said unsporting is always an option. I should have said it is always a consideration. It has to be bad and deliberate to call it that. In my play, which is non basketball, deliberate etc I would call a Flagrant T and toss him. If we say it can't be a flagrant personal because there was no contact between B3 and A1 (which I agree with) then it becomes a Flagrant T. We are calling it by definition "non contact" and we decided it was unacceptable behavior.

I was just curious as to your line of thinking in relating this to the OP since you kept say unsportsmanlike, which is a football term and since unsporting fouls under NFHS rules clearly refer to non contact situations.


Throwing the ball off of someone's face is irrelevant to the OP.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I was just curious as to your line of thinking in relating this to the OP since you kept say unsportsmanlike, which is a football term and since unsporting fouls under NFHS rules clearly refer to non contact situations.


Throwing the ball off of someone's face is irrelevant to the OP.

Unsporting is used in basketball rules and actually in the case play cited above. I cited that play simply because it is an example of somebody doing something unsporting, non basketball, intentional etc that doesn't involve actual physical contact between the bad actor player and the victim player. No player contact but unacceptable so needs to be called. Technical.

In the OP there was no physical contact between the bad actor and the victim player. So by definition we have "non contact" situation. If he deliberately, intentionally and in an unacceptable way shoves his teammate into A1 it is the same type of play. He's just using a teammate and not the ball.