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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 09, 2017, 01:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Go to the guy that made the call and give him additional information. "Look, timeout was called and the ball was already dead. What have you got?"

Hopefully he'll say "Nothing, time out."
Oh, right, you don't think a signal actually means anything.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 09, 2017, 02:08pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Oh, right, you don't think a signal actually means anything.
Signal is a signal. Show me something that says a signal is irreversible.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 09, 2017, 02:27pm
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Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
How exactly does one determine that a foul isn't an intentional foul after an official signals the foul as such?
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
It's pretty hard to undo this train wreck after the fact.

Of course if the other official didn't signal an INT at the spot, it would be *easy* to walk that back / ignore that.
Maybe it isn't so hard....why was it intentional? Excessive contact? Or just neutralizing an obvious advantage?

If the latter there was no advantage to be neutralized since the ball was dead. I could see retracting that intentional since it no longer meets the definition of intentional. If it was excessive contact, however, that doesn't change because the ball was dead...charge it.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 09, 2017, 02:28pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Maybe it isn't so hard....why was it intentional? Excessive contact? Or just neutralizing an obvious advantage?

If the latter there was no advantage to be neutralized since the ball was dead. I could see retracting that intentional since it no longer meets the definition of intentional. If it was excessive contact, however, that doesn't change because the ball was dead...charge it.

yep
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 12:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Maybe it isn't so hard....why was it intentional? Excessive contact? Or just neutralizing an obvious advantage?

If the latter there was no advantage to be neutralized since the ball was dead. I could see retracting that intentional since it no longer meets the definition of intentional. If it was excessive contact, however, that doesn't change because the ball was dead...charge it.
This is an excellent point and wisely rules-based. But, say you walk back from the signal. How do you sum this up in one sentence or less to the incredulous coach who saw said signal?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 12:53am
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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
This is an excellent point and wisely rules-based. But, say you walk back from the signal. How do you sum this up in one sentence or less to the incredulous coach who saw said signal?
Good question....very carefully and even so it will probably not be well received.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 03:56am
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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
This is an excellent point and wisely rules-based. But, say you walk back from the signal. How do you sum this up in one sentence or less to the incredulous coach who saw said signal?

"Coach, intentional foul is a judgment call, and my judgment was based on the fact that I thought the ball was live, which I have just learned is not true."
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 12:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
"Coach, intentional foul is a judgment call, and my judgment was based on the fact that I thought the ball was live, which I have just learned is not true."
Coach: "So if you thought it was an intentional foul live, wouldn't that be a technical or flagrant foul with a dead ball?"
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 12:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Coach: "So if you thought it was an intentional foul live, wouldn't that be a technical or flagrant foul with a dead ball?"
"No"
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 10, 2017, 02:49pm
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I understand the concept that intentional contacting an opponent when the ball is dead is a technical foul, but does the absence of player knowledge concerning the status of the ball influence the call we would make in any other situation?

Exact same scenario, except instead of the intentional foul by B, A1 dunks the ball (or for fun, leave the intentional foul in the situation and A1 still dunks/attempts to dunk). The same lack of knowledge concerning the status of the ball still exists (and extends beyond just the players as you have an official still covering the play like it is a live ball). How many of us give A1 a T for attempting to dunk/dunking a dead ball?
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